This week’s A.P.E.X. Hour explores the language of music with cellist Pete Jacobson and African music specialist Keenan Webster. They share ideas about the power of music, the spread of traditional African instruments into early American popular music, and how music can influence and heal at a wide range of levels for everyone. Enjoy!
Dr. Lynn Vartan 00:03
Hey everyone, this is Lynn Vartan and you are listening to the apex our on K SUU thunder 91.1. In this show you get more personal time with the guests who visit Southern Utah University from all over learning more about their stories and opinions beyond their presentations on stage. We will also give you some new music to listen to, and hope to turn you on to some new sounds and new genres. You can find this here every Thursday at 3pm or on the web at suu.edu/apex. But for now, welcome to this week's show here on thunder 91.1. All right, well, welcome everyone. We have little trouble getting our large theme song playing there, but we're just gonna jump right into the show. This is Lynn Vartan. You're listening to K SUU thunder 91.1. Today, we are talking about something that I really love, which is music. And those of you who know me know that I am a music teacher and music professor here at Suu. And today's Apex event. And today's guests that I have in this studio are musicians. And I can't wait to get started with a conversation. So I'm going to welcome in an old friend and a new friend. And we'll just talk about you one by one each. But my guests are talking strings, which is the cello and Kora duo. And we'll talk about all of what that means. But the cello part of it is Pete Jacobson, welcome into the studio. Pete How are you today?
Pete Jacobson 01:45
Great. Thank you, Lynn. How are you doing?
Dr. Lynn Vartan 01:48
I'm doing great. Well, we've known each other for a long time. But just to give our audience a little bit of you know, where you come from and who you are. So you know, your bio lists you as a cellist producers, songwriter, singer, chamber, musician, teacher and father, so many amazing things. And in 2013, he won a Grammy for Best Latin rock alternative or urban album as a move. As a member of the group kept Saul, you have done it all you have played for Dr. Dre, you've played on The Walking Dead, you've done everything. So I'd like to hear in your own words. What does it mean, to be a cellist for you today? What is that
Pete Jacobson 02:35
music is such a big thing, you can go forever in any one direction, right, and to have a certain amount of freedom to pursue whatever you love, that's, that's the thing. And to identify what you love, identify what the passions are in your life, identify what's fun, identify what's important. What's interesting, just what you want to do, and prioritize that, because we all need to make a living. But at the same time, we want to make a living, doing something that's important and meaningful and fun that we love to do. So it helps our health. And I think it helps everybody else's health to be just doing the thing you've you want to do, and feeling happy with your life. I see people around me who just doing what they want to do and, and, you know, I'm looking at looking at you right now. So, so, you know, we're all mirrors to each other, and we all have this capacity to lead so. So you know, being a musician is a thing that can require a lot of tolerance of financial. thin ice, right, right. But, you know, you stick with something long enough and eventually it's something is going to give Make way. And you're going to be able to you know, pay your your rent, and I've had all these great opportunities and, and, you know, the it's just happened because I keep sort of trusting my intuition.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 04:24
Mm hmm.
Pete Jacobson 04:26
And the friends that you make doing music, you know, maybe they're not big now, but they might be Hey, I see all these people who I used to play in jam with who I there's a ton of people who are talented, you know, and you know, I'm I'm in my 40s now, and I'm I've seen people who I was jamming with in my 20s that were on the same level as me and now suddenly here she is she's headlining the Hollywood Bowl. You know, people's careers can really Take a look. You never know what's possible. So you got to be cool to everybody you got to be, you know, I'm encouraging and hang around with people who, you know, kind of fan your fire and, and just trust your instincts.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 05:15
I love that being around people that fan your fire. Well, that seems to be a hallmark of your career, you are just such an incredible collaborator. And I want to talk more about that. But one such collaboration is the counterpart to your visit here and your residency. And that is Kenan Webster. So welcome in Keenan, how are you doing today?
Keenan Webster 05:37
Doing very good. All right.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 05:40
Well, Keenan, you are an expert in so many instruments, and you have this incredible trajectory to your career that started out with gospel and then got into blues, but you are here today showcasing your expertise in African instruments. So I wonder if you might give us a little snapshot into what it means to you to be a musician today.
Keenan Webster 06:09
A very good, powerful question? To be a musician today is to be I feel like I'm blessed to be a musician. Because because I have this dis tool and these energies in these healing arts to do you know, to heal my not only myself but to heal other people. So I feel kind of blessed to be a music because as, as the time and expense went by, I felt like I understand, like, I could see the purpose, and what music can be used for. So I feel happy to be a musician. Right now. H
Dr. Lynn Vartan 06:51
ave you always felt that that the healing power of music? I mean, when you got into it, was it more just something that you did in the people around? You did? Or were you very aware of the healing aspect, right from the get go?
Keenan Webster 07:05
Yes, I was very aware of it. For example, growing up in the South, you know, we got a lot of, you know, black churches, and they, you know, they just be going off as far as like they're worshiping in India, you know, especially with the use of music. So it's an energy that you could definitely feel, and you could definitely see it too. You can see it in people's vibe that they're filling in it, and you will fill it too. So I that's when I know that music was a force and and just the way it made people fill in church, but also outside of church, too. Yeah.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 07:42
Was that something? I mean? Did you have the aha moment where you wanted to dedicate your life to music?
Keenan Webster 07:48
Yes.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 07:49
Tell us about it.
Keenan Webster 07:50
I had about 50 of those actually did a lot. But it just keeps showing me like the first time when I heard the Jim Bay life. I had heard it on recordings. But when I was about five or six years old, I felt like that drum was just talking to me.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 08:08
Wow.
Keenan Webster 08:09
Like, I mean, I just just felt like I and I was shocked that people wasn't trippin off of the instrument like I was because I was, I was like, Man to force in the power of that. And I knew that that drum was like, probably like the king of, you know, on the drums and stuff like that. And also, when I'm when I saw certain musicians, like BB King and Lily gets in play, yeah. When I was younger, so I was about five. I used to go to different places with my, my great aunt and my grandmother. They was crazy about gospel music and of course of blues. So, being around them, I saw some powerful stuff. I seen how it affected people, too. I seen how I seen old men, you know, you know, coming in and walking cripple and then the power of music would flow through them. And they're able to walk this miraculously in Jump and dance, you know, and stuff. So I know that there was a power of music and I you know, I wanted to do it, but it took me a while to you know, kind of really get into doing it while I'm actually performing.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 09:14
Yeah. Awesome. Well, Pete, how did you choose the cello? I know that you we've talked quite a bit about the musical family that you came from, but But why specifically cello?
Pete Jacobson 09:24
Yeah, the cello chose me. You know, my dad played cello a little bit. And he had the instrument. So it was right there. And I love my dad. And it was, you know, it was right there. So I, I just I just grabbed it. And then my family's fuor boys. And so we had a string quartet for a little while there. And we all just played and my parents just encouraged us you got to practice you got to do it. Right took us to lessons and I just never stopped. Yeah.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 09:58
Was was there a moment where any of you fought over? Like, did you ever want to switch to violin or Viola?
Pete Jacobson 10:05
You know, I realized that all this time, I think I've really wanted to play the electric guitar and be able to shred like Jimi Hendrix. And as I sort of had this identity crisis about two or three years ago, like, is it too late? Well, maybe I can do it on the cello. So, you know, at a certain point, I'm realizing, though, that it's all one instrument. It's just what you do with it, and where your your listening is. And there's all these access points. I hear people play cello who are not classically trained, right, who are just listening, and they do it in their own way, and then make a song and they'll play and Wow, it's beautiful. And it's so unique and different. And if they would have had all that classical training, it kind of would have been, like, messed up and not that special thing. It is yeah. So the instruments are like that. It's they're just a vessel. And whatever, that the spirit of music takes you, you can do it, whatever that whatever the instrument is. So I'm not too worried about if it's this instrument or that one. It's just where your intention is. And, and there's, there's just possibilities.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 11:23
Oh, I love that. I want to come back to that conversation and talk a little bit more about, you know, access access points in the music, you know, this universal language of music that we talk about and more of its meaning to you. But first, I definitely want to give our audience a taste of what you guys sound like. So Keenan, before I play this, this sample of joy in the morning, I wonder if you might tell us a little bit about the instrument that you are playing on Joy in the morning. So people kind of know what they're hearing.
Keenan Webster 11:54
Okay. Yes, the Kora is a is a West African heart from the countries of Senegal, Guinea, Gambia and Mali. And so it is used for their oral tradition, and to speak their oral tradition, their genealogy to praise different people in the community for funerals is used for very important, you know, purposes. And it's a it's a double bridge harp. And, but it's also it has to make the resignation of the sound has Calabash gourd, with cow skin, strings, wood and the gorgeous, pretty huge. And it's connected with the banjo in the sense.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 12:38
Okay, and in case anybody doesn't know, what is double bridge actually mean?
Keenan Webster 12:42
Double bridge which means that is two sets of strings on both sides. Right? Yeah, I'd be forgetting to talk about these. Now I know.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 12:50
But you know, if people can visualize it, instead of thinking of like a violin or a cello, or, I mean, even a guitar where you have kind of one set of strings, the Kora has two rows of strings that are parallel to each other. And so you can play one set with your right hand and one set with your left hand.
Keenan Webster 13:10
Yes.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 13:10
Awesome. Okay. So is there anything else we should know about joy in the morning that tune? How did it come to be?
Keenan Webster 13:18
Well, both of those tunes came out of the pandemic, ah, five, so being ice in isolation. So wherever that in Santa Rosa right, where I stayed. Now, I have a lot of trees on the property and, and we had a little river and all that kind of flowing from, yeah, I say courage. And so all the realization of what was happening in the world, even on the, you know, the political level. Yeah, I think. So that that's how that joy, you know, cuz I was, I think what happened was to like, when the first one, the pandemic first broke out, it was still the winter was still kind of cool. But after stuff kind of settling down, and you started realizing the big picture of everything, and then all the stuff that people was going through and what I was going through, because I just didn't know what was going to go I had booked over 100 And that, like that year was going to be my best year. I had booked so many, you know, gates for myself. So I just couldn't wait to start but it got all the slots just like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like that. So that I think I had to just find joy in my music, and my music was my refuge when I was in isolation. And so I was outside. Thank God, I had those trees and those birds and everything and I was just, it was some morning time and I think the spring had kicked in and I was feeling so like, I just had this rush of joy when I was playing music because the weather was getting better. I was like, Are they still kinda little bit hope, with everything and all this music was flowing through me. And that's how it happened. But joy is my name is the name of my sister, younger sister. But you know, Joy is also referenced in the Bible, you know, join them. Yeah. So you know, that's how it came about.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 15:18
Beautiful thank you for sharing the the background of that song. So this is a joy in the morning and the duo is talking strings and you're going to be hearing the African Kora and also some cello on this so here's joy in the morning you're listening to KSUU you thunder 91.1 Wow well All right. Welcome back everyone. That song was called joy in the morning and the artists that you heard are collectively known as talking strings but it's Pete Jacobson on cello and Keenan Webster on the Korra and you're listening to KSUU thunder 91.1 Welcome back into the studio Pete and Keenan that music I mean, how can you not feel amazing I definitely get the sense of joy in the morning there oh man
Pete Jacobson 19:36
I'm so in love with that instrument was the Cora I just listened to it and I hear water going down a waterfall and I hear that the leaves and I hear the nature of the wind and it was amazing piece of technology that the ancestors created with that instrument. Yeah, right. Like it's it is really a huge healing instrument. Right? And how old is the Kora? Do you know?
Keenan Webster 20:10
I don't have the exact age, because it was no there was no copyrights and then like that, back in those days, but the Kora and similar like instruments, Egypt has the single bridge, kind of same idea. You know, Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, Ethiopia, harps has been in Africa for for up to about, I think probably like, five 6000 years that they have, you know, depictions of that of it on the wall and the Hebrew glyphs and stuff like that, and cave paintings of people playing them. So they know they've been around for a long time. And then there's a possibility that the, the bow and arrow, you know, the bow, yeah, might have started. Because in Africa, they got so many one string boat, and you know, like this, yeah, like a beaten bow to the beer bar, so that the harps and then people kept experimenting, adding maybe one or two or three more strings, and today, I get that, but Africa has had a big heart, you know, tradition here,
Pete Jacobson 21:17
I've seen those pictures of, you know, music of Ethiopia, and all that region and in eastern Africa, and the way that they the music and the culture shared from there through the Mediterranean through ancient Greece, yes, through the Ottoman Empire. It's really though we have shared and, and people have been getting together and like what we're doing just, you know, having fun making music and making, you know, making livelihoods and trying to make a beautiful sound for since forever. And so, all these instruments have been sharing. And, you know, as cultures meet, instruments meet, and so you know, cello and Kora people might say, oh, that's an unusual thing. But actually, when instruments from here and instruments from there, come together, that's the oldest story in the world right there. Because I guess in in the, this region, where the core is from Timbuktu, that was like a major trade route from that would stretch all the way was at the to
Keenan Webster 22:31
Egypt, to East Africa, and also to the Middle East. And like the same places where you send that that whole
Pete Jacobson 22:39
Kashmir through to China, the Silk Road went all that way. There was people carrying out trade and exchanging goods and
Keenan Webster 22:49
art and culture, science, technology, religion, sharing of ideas.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 22:55
Yeah, I love that idea. Like what you were saying, we think of Oh, my gosh, you know, this classical instrument of the cello, and then this incredible folk world instrument of the Korra. And, and that they, they seem an unlikely pairing, but actually, it's probably a very natural pairing, considering that the history and tradition, one of the other things that we talked about quite a bit, or have been talking about is the connection of these instruments to the banjo and as it came into the states and into jazz and into blues. And I wonder if you might share a little bit of that history with us.
Keenan Webster 23:34
Okay, sure. Yes. Well, of course, people. Well, we now know that the banjo did come from us, Africa. And when it was first landed here in the Americas, it came some some of the banjos came, and some of the first earliest banjos were made in Haiti, people in a place like Haiti and Jamaica. But then there was a group of slaves that were brought over the wreck. They some, well, a lot of the slaves used to go to Cuba for a minute, right? That was like a stage port for them to figure out and then they will sin from puberty, you need to send you to the islands, or to America to South America, from there into other different places in England. So it was like a layover for them to sail. And so that's why they had the some of the first earliest ones were in Haiti and Jamaica, so they have them in a museum now, they're dated back like 1750. Wow, those are the earliest ones that they have recorded. And also you don't have to have evidence. But the when the slaves did come over here, they did. They wasn't able to bring the actual instrument, but they use whatever you know, they still have the concept of making a banjo which is made out of a gourd, wood, skin, cow hyde. And they was able to To find the materials wherever they went and and make it so it you know it looks a little bit slightly different because of course in America are different from the course in Africa because they're closer to you know the equator right so the goal is go real bigger and this different but they were able to find gourds in the south and you know George's and they was able to make it and produce it they had the Kora is connected those these instruments like the Cora and the kemeling Guney they all connected together in the fact that they use Gordon skin to make the presentation. So, all their instruments like the one string violence, the cellos that they have they have a cello over there to call Amin SOCO and they have a three to five string bass that's play with the the major notes but also is played as a drum so it's like a kick bass you know trap set and a string to set the bone in. Oh, the Bolong Yeah, yeah. So all their instruments was made with that you see that CT scan technology. But that's how it was but but the Kora they didn't mind the banjo when it came here to America. Because in mind, the slave owners and people in the 30 they didn't mind the slaves playing the banjo, they actually loved it because the banjo it was more of a instrument that's used for entertainment, something like that. Right?
Dr. Lynn Vartan 26:31
Not as ritual instruments more of a play party instrument.
Pete Jacobson 26:35
Yeah. As opposed to the drums which
Keenan Webster 26:38
And the Kora Yeah, because they knew that hey, this guy's a bush doctor or this guy's a blacksmith or this guy's he used to be a warrior. He's a king. This guy is a musician. And they fit the the storytellers because they wanted people to forget about their language and culture, right? And totally have nothing to do with the language and names everything. So they didn't want them to, to learn it from you know, cuz grilles would have definitely taught you how you taught. They was teaching oral history and tradition. Y
Pete Jacobson 27:11
Yeah, that's a such a power to be connected to your your lineage and Right, right, right. Yeah.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 27:19
The drums and the Cora, as we've talked about, we're really at cultural storytellers. They carry on the the storytelling tradition, the history. Yes. Whereas the, the new banjo sound, you know, could be more of a party instrument. It didn't have that, that that power, maybe necessarily, or at least the slave owners at that time didn't perceive it that way. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So and then, and then after that, what what what happened? Because I think people gravitated a bit towards guitar. And then banjo turned into maybe now it's sort of looked at as this American folk instrument. Tell us a little bit about that transition.
Keenan Webster 27:59
Yes. So that transition, transition. All the history tells us and the histories from the Presidents you know, like from the stuff that they wrote, and they had tons you know, like, for example, I think George Washington might have had 100 slaves. So he, he allowed his slaves and he's and he was admitting that he, he loves it. He said they played this beautiful instrument called the banjo and I liked it and, and he started allowing them to play. But so the early hundred's early 16 1700s, most of the slaves were the only people who play the end, they played the fiddle, you know, the, the American European film, but they missed it with the banjo. And so it became popular, but in the early 1800s There was a lot of what they call minstrel shows going on yeah the minstrel where they was actually making it was actually degrading the spirit Yes, of African Americans when they played it because they showed them you know, like looking for toasts with big big lips and eating watermelon and playing the banjo. So a lot of African American musicians they didn't want to be associated with that. So they started playing the guitar too. And some might not have started playing not every I'm pretty sure not all the slaves started playing you know, right right didn't want to play the banjo because people still played it all the way up to the 1920s when he played in jazz music in the one era of jazz music, you know 1920s and 30s right before that depression but they they just a lot of people was offended by it and they didn't want to see you know, they started playing the guitar but they the style that they play the finger picking style that is very popular with the club club, you know, claw hammer style and all that stuff. They just bought they switch their ideas on to the guitar, and that's why you have that blues because they was playing that modes, all these different modes. We know what the blues and and rhythm stuff like that. And they needed the music to express themselves because it kind of healed them to all the stuff that they was going through, you know, the pain and suffering.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 30:08
Yeah, that's incredible to hear that history. Thank you for sharing that. Which brings us kind of to thinking about the genres that you guys play in today. And, you know, we heard joy in the morning, which is a song that Keenan wrote. But in today's performance, you guys played a little bit of sort of traditional Indian music, traditional African music, new music, I wonder if you guys might talk about maybe Pete, we'll start with you. You know, how do you feel about genres in music? I mean, is that a word that you're comfortable with? Or would you, you know, do you prefer not to identify in terms of genre?
Pete Jacobson 30:49
Yes, kind of illusion, the more you zoom in and look at it, the more it sort of disappears and becomes this hazy mist of what's this? And what's that? I mean, the interesting because I feel like we, you know, we're innovators. And we're purists at the same time. And there's these two different kinds of perspectives,
Dr. Lynn Vartan 31:17
tell me more.
Pete Jacobson 31:18
So, you know, the purists are going to say, this instrument, plays this style and focus on the tradition of, of this at this particular style, it needs to be, like, maintained in its original form, play it the way it's been done, keep that tradition alive. The Innovators say, hey, let's shake it up, and, and have a good time. And, you know, I'm, I might, you know, people might say, hey, what you guys are doing is, is really an innovator thing, because you're blending this with that. But I just love the purists too, who say you shouldn't do that, because that it's really important to keep the spirit and the trueness of the tradition intact. And, you know, I've learned that a lot with Western classical music that I've played. And growing up playing Mozart and Bach, you know, these, you know, where's my authentic voice? You know, I'm a kid that grew up in the suburbs of San Diego. So I'm going to approach Bach but in play that beautiful music but I didn't grow up in Europe were in the cathedral. They're playing Bach on the Oregon in that might be a more of an authentic region where Bach came from, what did I hear when I was growing up? I heard garage bands, right? Reggae music and classical music and just Yeah, did we, you know, we all come into from somewhere. And it's, it's so good to go deep and learn with masters of a tradition. I've learned a lot from Indian classical music Masters. One of my primary teachers was his guitarist and learn from Pandit Ravi Shankar. And he's taught me a lot and I've learned from Indian violinists and the freedom that they have if you've never listened to raga music, Indian classical music on strings on the violin is just exquisite. That's the most such a just freedom artists like Dr. L. Subramaniam amazing violinist the first time I heard that I just was in love. i It was really an AHA movement when I heard the the improv improvisation of the Indian classical musicians on strings. It made me realize that you could just play forever and in a a beautiful and improv Satori way,
Dr. Lynn Vartan 34:14
like a freedom. It sounds like
Pete Jacobson 34:16
I was so jealous of that freedom when I heard it. How do they do that? Because I was so used to reading music, right? You know, and so this, you know, the last many years of my life has been, you know, learning to play by ear.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 34:28
And so what were those early lessons? So you're this classically trained cellist who start studying with an Indian music Master? What were those early lessons like? I mean, it must have been a bit of a shock to the system.
Pete Jacobson 34:42
Yeah, it's so funny because all these years of learning on the cello and I think I know something right. And then they sit up and I have to play by ear. And I realized I really don't know anything. It's so it's so so humbling, just to realize, oh, after all this study actually am a complete A beginner?
Dr. Lynn Vartan 35:00
And was that hard to deal with? I mean, I think I would find that very challenging to deal with.
Pete Jacobson 35:06
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had to let my ego go. And stay on task for a long time. And you know, I'm still, I'm still just a beginner. Yeah. I don't have anything to prove to anybody except myself just to keep doing it and have a daily practice.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 35:30
So do you then practice letting go daily?
Pete Jacobson 35:36
Yeah, what do I practice daily?
Dr. Lynn Vartan 35:40
Well, I mean, is it SO to SO to sort of explore this realm of your playing this, this freedom? Is it you know, when we think of practicing, we think about, Okay, we're gonna sit down, we're gonna practice this music, but I was wondering if your practice becomes more a practice of letting go?
Pete Jacobson 35:57
Yeah, that's a great question. It takes both sides of the brain. Right? There's, there's rote routines that, that you've learned that get the technique going, but then there's also the other side, which is the, you know, the, the right brain side, I think, I don't know, which is which, but what you know, one of them is more about memorizing and, and another one is about being open in the moment. And having a live audience to play in front of is the greatest. Yeah, I really missed that. During the pandemic, you know, playing alone is one thing, but suddenly, when there's other ears and eyes on you, the music takes another form. Yeah, just by having yours in the room listening. And other people who are experiencing the moment and the sound with you, it changes the music, the music comes alive, there's all these other opportunities to, to work with. Those those feelings. Yeah, that happened just from that sort of energy transfer the energy exchange of being in a room together. Yeah, when music is happening,
Dr. Lynn Vartan 37:07
I appreciate you saying that the practice is really a bit of both, because in order to have that freedom, you have to have those those patterns, those things have to be very naturally imprinted inside you, you know, if it's a melody pattern, or this, you have to have those words able to come out so that you can have this effective conversation when improvising. But but to the performance side of things, you know, you guys talk so much about the connection with the audience. And I wondered, can can you always feel an audience? Or is there some time where you're not sure, and you get it wrong? Because I know, I would say that the genres that I'm more involved with tend to be a little more like strict recital environments. And sometimes I feel like I've got the audience I know exactly where they are, you know, and then other times, I have no idea. And I wondered if in your performance in the way that you're sort of super open. I wonder how you feel about that? Do you always feel the audience?
Keenan Webster 38:15
I did, it just depends on the situation.
Pete Jacobson 38:19
Unknown, right, it's unknown. Okay, let us know what's going to happen.
Keenan Webster 38:23
Yeah, but like, that's why I, like, you know, today. Like, I had to explain to him like I, like, I usually do like my prayers, you know, to try to meditate and all that kind of stuff. So that I could, I could just be prepared for anything to happen, right. But sometimes you might not be able to have enough time to do that. And you kind of got it winged. So you don't know if it's you or the audience. But you know, you can you know, when you when you pay attention, a lot of people like to close their eyes and this block that all that out. But sometimes you could be playing in places and you can see people they might not be paying attention to you. And he might you might take into personally, like, oh, nobody's not listening to me. Right. But then after, after you finish, some people will come up to you, man, I heard everything that was the most beautiful thing. So it does take a lot of like, not tripping off of it, right? Not even worried about it sometimes and you come to get and save and heal those people that you know, will accept it, you know, because maybe sometimes I let maybe a lot of people might not accept it. And it's not that they might not accept it, it might that they hit might be in the wrong place. So maybe they got they got negative injury or trauma or something stuff. Yeah. But
Dr. Lynn Vartan 39:44
I appreciate hearing that because that makes me feel a bit more because that's kind of what my experience is too. And so it's nice to hear that from other musicians as well. Well, I think it's time for another song um, so we can hear you guys in action and feel some that incredible love and energy that comes out through your instruments. We have a track called Sunrise. And I wonder if you might tell us a little bit about the track.
Keenan Webster 40:10
Okay, that was another. That was another, both those songs are kind of related in a sense, because so the whole tagline of joy coming in the morning is, is half of a verse from the Bible, right? So that that scripture says, pain and suffering may endure for a night. But joy comes in the morning, right? So along with that joy, you know, you might have had a bad night, but that that sunrise, soon as it comes up, and it wakes up to Earth, it's a whole new brand, you know, brand new day, that you can start life over and just let go and start the whole healing process and, you know, do your thing. So that sound like both of them came out about the same time, they just came out of nowhere. And it's funny how stuff like that happens sometimes. And sometimes you can't get no inspiration for anything. But you know, it also takes you having to have some kind of balance in your life on a spiritual level, for you to understand that. Whatever you see, you think that it's all bad, but sometimes it's not gonna be bad. It's just either how you can you have to have faith that even though it sounds bad, or looks bad, or it feels bad, that is not going to be as bad as you know, you think it is. And sometimes you could trick young stuff. And it works sometimes, because sometimes they'll even be that bad. Or you can even change the flow of how things things change something that was bad, that was going bad, and you can just totally change it and make it good notes into some of the skirt. So it's like learning about life, you know, how to handle certain situations, when you see people not playing, you know, looking at people not looking at you, you know, this would be like, you know, this, this, you know, mind over everything. Exactly.
Pete Jacobson 42:05
Mind Over reality, just the open to the possibilities and ended to release ourselves from negative thinking. Right, right, right. Yes.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 42:16
Sounds like a perfect sunrise. So we're gonna check out sunrise again. The group is called Talking strings. It's a cellist Pete Jacobson, and you're going to hear on the Korra. Kenan Webster, you're listening to KSUU thunder 91.1 All right, everyone. Well, welcome back. So that was, gosh, just the joyful sounds of sunrise. The name of the track is sunrise. And that was Pete Jacobson and Kenan Webster on the cello and Kora, they make up the duo talking strings, and they are in the studio together. Welcome back, guys. Hey. So I do have, I'm ready to ready to go into a topic that I'm really excited to talk to you about. But I occurred, it occurred to me that we should tell listeners where the name talking strings comes from. And Keenan, I think it kind of comes from a little bit of your background. Right. Can you tell us about the talking strings name?
Keenan Webster 46:18
Okay. Well, I, I started the instruments that I'm playing now. They're from the tradition of the Mandinka people of West Africa. And that's the countries that Mali, Senegal, Guinea, Gambia and other a couple other countries. And so I started playing off with the drums. But I move I fell in love with the Bala phone two, which is the African version of the xylophone. And the marimba, is constant southern marimba. And that's what they call the instrument, they call it talking wood. So that's what it means Balinese wood, and folk means talking, right? Do you know so I just went on. And I was like, that's a cool concept. So I just did the English version of it, which is talking with Yeah, and then talking string sings perfect. Yeah. And then if I start playing the Bala phone again, maybe I might, I'm considering it. After two or three years, actually, I've been I haven't been playing and I had a group that was is more drum. jazz estimate instrumentation. And, and,you know, xylophones, but I had some deaths in I group, and then some other people move. And so the group has split it up. And so I haven't you No, read, No, release that CD. But I'm gonna probably, you know, do it and maybe try to get back into the biofoam by now that you're with cello. Yeah.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 47:53
And that's definitely a string instrument as well, to to the topic that I wanted to ask you about we we touched on a little bit before the break. And that was a you were talking about your faith and prayer and how the two songs that we played had this connection to a Bible verse. And I know that Pete when when I went into the green room earlier, before your performance, you were meditating and doing some vocalizing. And so I wondered if we might talk a bit about the meditation practice, the mindfulness practice, that each of you might deploy, and how that affects your musicianship and your performances. So Pete, let's start with you. Tell me a little bit about how meditation plays into you know who you are, and what you're able to access in performance.
Pete Jacobson 48:43
So there's a tremendous power that comes from being in a place of calm and listening, to send her back into a as just a neutral place of listening. And paying attention to the breath is a practice that my dad taught me a lot when I was a kid, which he was really a student of Zen Buddhism. And so this thing called zozen was a practice that he always I wake up and see him doing that early in the morning. And it it's a mindfulness practice focused on attention to the breath. And we can do that anywhere. Whatever we're doing in our life. It's a process of noticing. And it's so easy to get spun out thinking on a million different worries. Yeah. But noticing that we're worrying is a really crucial step or not noticing that we're thinking or noticing that we're In a place with a activated thought pattern. And then it's immediately possible to go to a place of calm to go back to focusing on on the breath. And it's the practice of listening. So, you know, just like everybody, I'm crazy. And I see it all around me, people can be consumed by worries and fears. And, for a way, a solution to that is what the world needs. So that we can move forward with confidence and kindness and compassion. Because most of the troubles in the world are caused by fear about the future, right. And most of those fears are completely irrational and unresolvable. There's nothing we can do to prepare for a million things that could go wrong. And we just got to cross that bridge when we get there. So what we have left is this moment now, which is inhabited in our breath. And what a easy thing that is, what a what a beautiful feeling it is to be alive, and just peaceful. So anytime that any anybody feels consumed by worry, we can just remember that there may, there may be good reason, there may be a tiger about to pounce on you, and your instincts will probably save you. But most of the worries are just an opportunity to let them go and return to the moment now. And then there's just gifts in the present.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 52:02
It's your mindfulness practice the same, it's right before a performance or if it's at the beginning of the day. I mean, is it the same practice? Or do you find that it's it's different if it's preparing for performance as it is preparing for the day,
Pete Jacobson 52:18
I feel so it's kind of influenced by people around me, like I was on this tour with the sitar player who he was really about the power of prayer, which is not something that I had a whole lot growing up in and in we went to a bunch of different places and you know, I'm, I was it was cool to to watch him praying. I remember we were he had this practice he was doing every morning for about 20 minutes, he would get on the on his on his head phone set and dial into his wife back in LA. And they would pray for 20 minutes. And they were sort of experimenting, what's that going to do to our life, and they would just pray together. And we were in New Mexico, in Navajo country. And there we were just in some parking lot. I'm gonna go grab a coffee. He's my buddy's doing his prayer thing and go back to the parking lot. And I'm sipping on a coffee and he's on the ground on his knees. And this kid walks up to us like I use your buddy. All right. Like, oh, yeah, don't worry about him. He's just praying, you know? And like, hey, I need some prayer right now.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 53:33
Wow.
Pete Jacobson 53:34
And like, Hey, are you okay? And he just started going into kind of what was going on in his life and his battles, as you know, the feeling like there's no good options. And it was so cool to listen. And my friend finished what he was doing and got up and we sat down together. And we stood together. And my buddy, who's all about prayer said, Hey, can Can I pray with you? And my friend said, Yeah, I need that. And so we sat down, and we're going in a circle, just, you know, iterating, what the good things like that we wish for and giving thanks for the things that we appreciate. And suddenly, two or three more people say, what are you guys doing that? Can we sit down with you? And suddenly it was like this spontaneous circle? And I thought, wow, like, this is amazing that there's a need for that. Yeah. And so to be fearless and to, you know, in the in the right way to to help, because the worst thing is feeling lost.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 54:36
Yeah. Right.
Pete Jacobson 54:38
And feeling like you have no good options. Yes. And so what we can do to help guide people to not feel lost is the thing. Yeah, right.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 54:52
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's amazing. Keenan, you've spoken about prayer. And I know that meditation is about part of your preparation for performance, can you share with us a little bit about what that practice has meant to you?
Keenan Webster 55:07
It's, it's very good practice. I was kind of taught that when I had went through, I don't tell a lot of people that but I went through my initiations and of African masters and stuff like that. They do do certain things, rituals, right? When you learning the drums, because when you're doing it's different when you just jamming or playing, but when you start doing a lot of the, you know, the traditional stuff, they need you to be clean. Yeah, they need your mind space, so they teach you how to cleanse yourself. Wow. So the same thing with the Native Americans, you know, they use use of sage and cedar wood takes away you know, negative vibes. Yeah, spirits. And so I've been incorporating that all the time when I play. So like he said, miracles be happening because I pray like it is so I didn't get a good chance to play. There's times when it just too difficult. Yeah, but like today, so I felt like I was a little bit time bit off they'll normally be but I was able to do a quick chat. And so that kind of did help. And, but it definitely is, like needed for you to ground yourself and to get rid of all your negative energies that you might, you know, because when you play music, you don't want your negative energies interfere with the music in the Spirit. And so it's a good reason to do it. Yeah, very good reason.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 56:36
Thank you so much. We, you know, we were gonna play another song, but I want to get to my last question. And to have you guys on air talking is is is so special. But we want to point everybody to to Pete on Spotify. Pete, can you tell us about you have a few albums available that people can check out? Tell us about those.
Pete Jacobson 56:58
Okay, so I've got this cello project where originally the concept was just what kind of sounds can I make using just the cello, and the the percussion will be thumping on the belly of the cello and strumming on it like a guitar, plucking it like a bass, doing all the metal melodic stuff there and stacking it up when I'm recording at home and is so is just a bunch of cellos and it was just Hello, cellos there. And so I'm just going to call this Hello, cello. That's the name. So if you want to look it up, H E L L A, C E L L O, hella cello. That's me. And it started out as just instrumental music. But you know, I'm incorporating actually a lot of people who I love to play with, and I've got a new album about to come out a bunch of songs, a bunch of actually love songs. And the album is called wildlife eats billionaires.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 57:55
Oh, my God,
Pete Jacobson 57:56
other love songs. So stay tuned for that. It'll be out in the next couple months. But the other album you can check out. It's called Dream talk. And those are all extemporaneous. Improv is improvisational ideas that turned into compositions and, you know, turned into a whole album. Right around the time my first son was being born. So
Dr. Lynn Vartan 58:16
great. Well, definitely check those out on Spotify. And then the tunes that we heard today, from from you guys, as a duo are also going to be in a forthcoming album, so we'll be aware of that. Yes. Stream
Pete Jacobson 58:29
got to hear some special new stuff. It's not out yet. But keep an eye out for
Keenan Webster 58:33
Yes, that's right.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 58:35
Absolutely. Well, cause and is there anywhere else that we should be aware to find you online websites? I know Pete, you have a website?
Pete Jacobson 58:43
Yeah, I've got a website. You know, on the Insta, you can find me at hello, cello. Facebook, Peter PT Jacobson. Website, Pete plays cello.com
Dr. Lynn Vartan 58:56
Fantastic.
Keenan Webster 58:57
Okay. My website is not ready yet. Yeah. So I I, I want to give it out. I do have the name. I mean, the domain already. Yeah. Yeah. But I have to get somebody to hook me up. Cool. Cool. I was trying to do it myself.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 59:14
And oh, my gosh. Never ever.
Pete Jacobson 59:17
If you want to see some footage of talking strings, you could check out my YouTube channel. Yep. Fungus eats plastic. Oh, I'm talking strange footage there. Yeah, reach out to me. I'll link you up with Kenan Yeah. And then I will be able to get full links on you know, perfect links in the future.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 59:39
Yeah. So my last question is a playful one. It's kind of the end of the hour question. And the question is what's turning you on this week? And it really can be anything. It can be like a song. It can be a favorite food. It could be a TV show. It could be a movie, it could be. I mean, we've had people say their favorite lipstick. It could be anything You want and it's just something kind of playful. And so I'm gonna start with Pete Jacobson. What is turning you? Sweet?
Keenan Webster 1:00:09
Oh, you should ask them that.
Pete Jacobson 1:00:13
My bit I just have so much fun with with with my family. And I was able to make this trip from Los Angeles to Cedar City with my whole family.
Keenan Webster 1:00:26
Exactly.
Pete Jacobson 1:00:27
Yes. We've made it safely through the storms and yeah, all this rain and all this snow and here we are we you know, it's turning me on a snowball fights with my four year old Oh my gosh. Little snow out here. And that's all fun. Yeah, that's perfect.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 1:00:42
Keenan Webster, what is turning you on this week?
Keenan Webster 1:00:45
It's so many things. I don't even know where to start. Well, you know, basically, I always get turned on by playing music. So that's the number one thing. The other thing is playing for people and plan, meeting new people and being in different environments. So that whole combination.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 1:01:05
Perfect
Keenan Webster 1:01:05
is just doing the doing the work. Yeah.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 1:01:07
Thank you guys so much. Well, Pete Jacobson, Kenan Webster talking strings duo, thank you guys so much for spending the hour with me. It's been absolutely beautiful. So thank you.
Keenan Webster 1:01:18
Yes. And and Lynne, you have been I just want the, you know, us to take this down and record she has been super amazing, incredible. And, and he blessed us. And we really, really appreciate everything you've done. Yeah, there's a lot.
Dr. Lynn Vartan 1:01:34
Oh, thank you so much. My pleasure. I mean, this has been just amazing. balm for my soul. And thank you so much for being here and just being so generous with your musicianship and the healing powers that you are bringing to us. So thank you guys. Thank you. Alright, well, that's gonna end on that note. Thank you, everyone. We'll see you next week. Thanks so much for listening to the apex hour here on KSUU thunder 91.1. Come find us again next Thursday at 3pm for more conversations with the visiting guests at Southern Utah University, and new music to discover for your next playlist. And in the meantime, we would love to see you at our events on campus. To find out more, check out suu.edu/apex Until next week, this is Lynn Vartan saying goodbye from the apex our here on thunder 91.1