Join host Ryan Paul on this special Utah Shakespeare Festival edition of the APEX Radio Hour as he sits down with acclaimed director Beth Lopes. Discover how her lifelong upbringing in regional theater shaped her collaborative, ensemble-driven approach to directing iconic masterpieces like As You Like It and Hamlet. Lopes dives deep into cutting away the excess marble of traditional scripts to reveal fresh, human-centric stories that challenge and connect with modern audiences.
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[Reese Whitaker]
You are listening to the Apex Hour hosted by Ryan Paul on KSUU Thunder 91.1. This show allows more personal time with our guests, allowing them to give us their stories and opinions. We will also give you new music to listen to, hoping you enjoy some new sounds and genres. Welcome to this episode of the Apex Hour.
[Lauren Bird]
Welcome to the Apex Radio Hour, Utah Shakespeare Festival edition. I'm producer Lauren Bird, and I'm here today with director of Apex and professor of history, Ryan Paul, and our special guest Beth Lopes. I'll turn it over to you, Ryan.
[Ryan Paul]
Thank you, Lauren. We are so excited to be partnering with the Utah Shakespeare Festival for a series of podcasts celebrating their 65 years. And on a personal and professional level, I'm even more happy to invite the inaugural participant, director Beth Lopes.
Thank you for being here. We appreciate you taking some time. Thank you so much for having me.
So one of the questions I always like to start with in the radio show is kind of a how we get to now question. So can you tell me a little bit about where you're from and kind of why you decided to do what you do?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah, I'm from Northern California, originally Marin County. I grew up with incredible parents who took me to the theater all the time. I joke that they have the souls of artists and the pocketbooks of lawyers.
So I really lucked out. So they started taking my sister and I to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival when I was eight years old. I think between eight and like 32, I missed one year.
We went every single year. So that was the beginning of my theater education. I really lucked out into an incredible drama program in high school.
And then I went to NYU for acting and kind of because I, you know, I directed plays in high school. I had this incredible drama program where the upperclassmen directed the freshmen in one acts. So I directed for one acts by the time I had gotten out of high school, but it still didn't quite occur to me that that was a career.
So I went to NYU for acting. I made friends with some upperclassmen that when they graduated, they started a theater company. They had enough actors.
They needed directors. So when I was in school for acting, I was still directing outside of school. And then I graduated and I was sort of doing both.
And then I just had this moment where I just was like, I think I'm a director. I think I think you need to go to school for directing. And my parents were very supportive.
And I went to UC Irvine, their grad directing program, worked with Keith Fowler, who's the head of my program. Phil Thompson, who is here as the voice and text coach for Hamlet this year, was one of my teachers at UCI. So it's so funny how those things kind of come full circle.
And then part of the UCI grad program was I assisted and directed here at USF in 2010, two shows when I was a 25 year old grad student. And so after grad school, it was sort of like, yeah, this is what I need to be doing. And I had a really lovely, actually, now that I think of it, Phil Thompson co-directed a production of Winter's Tale that I was in in grad school.
And that was the last show that I was in as an actor that I fully rehearsed. And it was such a wonderful experience. Truly, it was every single level was incredible.
And I got to the end of it and I was like, I think I'm a director. Because I just didn't have the same level of satisfaction that I had when I was directing. And so pretty much since then, I've never looked back.
And I've done a lot of work in LA and Orange County, but sort of all over the place. And I do a bunch of different things. But Shakespeare is always the thing that I keep coming back to.
So that's how I got here.
[Ryan Paul]
So really, you enjoy telling people what to do, as opposed to have other people telling you what to do.
[Beth Lopes]
It's really what you're saying. I have to say, I also did not have the skill as an actor to do the thing that I felt like I knew needed to happen. Do you know what I mean?
I do. That I would be cast in something and I would be like, I know that this is what this character needs, but I can't do it. So then it's, you know, sometimes you encounter these things where actors who are directing, you know, are directing someone in the role that they think they would play.
And they're really hard on that actor. I have the opposite effect. I'm always so thrilled to direct an actor in a part that I played, you know, 3,000 years ago.
Because I'm like, oh, yes, here they are. They can do the thing. This is so exciting.
Finally, it's realized.
[Lauren Bird]
Yeah, exactly.
[Ryan Paul]
So what did your parents do? They're both lawyers. Lawyers.
Yeah. So when, I always like to ask this question as well, what was the first thing you remember wanting to be when you grew up?
[Beth Lopes]
Probably an astronaut. I went to space camp. My husband also went to space camp.
We're both nerds. But an astronaut.
[Ryan Paul]
Is he an astronaut?
[Beth Lopes]
No, he's not. He's an actor. An FBI field agent.
That was an early dream.
[Ryan Paul]
But never a lawyer?
[Beth Lopes]
Never a lawyer. No, there were too many lawyers around to want to be a lawyer. But, you know, but the theater was always something that was just so present in our lives, too, that I think that there was something about that that felt really inevitable.
And storytelling, because I'm really not a writer. I'm not a good writer at all. It's not my medium.
But I do feel like storytelling is in my brain and my body. And growing up and seeing a lot of theater, you know, my mom will say that from an early age, I would be like, I thought this was going to happen. And my mom was like, that would have been interesting.
But like sort of connecting dots and seeing story. And so theater was, I don't know, it did feel a little bit like an inevitability.
[Ryan Paul]
So, I mean, it's interesting that as we talk about this of 65 years of the festival, right, that you spent so much formative time at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And that's kind of still the, you know, Angus Bowmer, the founder, was a mentor of Fred Adams, who was the founder of the Utah Shakespeare Festival. It seems in some ways that that all roads lead to Ashland in some way or another.
It must be a small community of regional theater.
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's the beautiful thing about these festivals. And I think it's why I felt like when I came here, I really understood this place, too, because I am a Shakespeare Festival baby. You know, I grew up going every year.
So I understand, you know, what it feels like as an audience member when you see people that you saw last year or two years ago, that it's so exciting, the familiarity of it, that when the casts are announced, you're like, oh, my gosh, and dreaming through all the things. When the plays are announced, you're dreaming about who, you know, that could be in it. And so it's a really spectacular thing to get to come here.
I remember last year when, because I directed As You Like It last year, at opening night, the play finished and my husband looked at me. It was just this very sort of lovely moment, because I think that he knew how much that meant to me, because, you know, I grew up going to places like this. And so it was just a really beautiful moment to get to tell a story in this kind of environment and world where the audiences are so game.
And, you know, they're bringing their copies of the play to the seminars and asking questions about when they read it versus when they're seeing it. I mean, it's really special. And you don't get that a lot of places.
And the fact that here, especially, Shakespeare is sort of the star is extraordinary. You know, it's really, it's a beautiful thing. And I just feel so grateful to be a part of it.
[Ryan Paul]
I think it's interesting as you talk about your parents. I mean, I wonder what it was about theater for them, right? I mean, like, what happened if your parents were big lacrosse fans or, you know, or soccer fans?
[Beth Lopes]
I don't have the athleticism for that.
[Ryan Paul]
Well, you may have had it, right?
[Beth Lopes]
If they would have taken you to the... I mean, I'm a parent now, and I think about this all the time, that am I not putting my child in the activity that they're going to excel in? And I mean, I think that they, I mean, my mom was an English major in college.
You know, she wrote her thesis on Macbeth. So, you know, I think that that, for her especially, was always a part of her DNA, that she loved literature, she loved Shakespeare, she loved the theater. And then, you know, I don't know what it is with my dad, probably meeting my mom.
But, you know, they were such huge theater lovers. They had a brick at Berkeley Rep. You know, they took us to see, we didn't see a lot of musicals.
Les Mis was kind of the only musical that we saw. I guess we would see things, but they would more often than not, I remember seeing the Bose Stratagem when I was like nine years old. You know, they would take us to things that we were probably a little too young for, but it was such an incredible education.
And then at OSF, you know, you go up, and we would usually see around three, four of the shows, and they would choose, and sometimes they would get a babysitter for us, and they would go see the more adult ones, you know, that kind of thing. So we'd see a lot of Midsommar and Tempest and that kind of thing. And I remember when I was in high school, I did the summer seminar program at Ashland, and we would see it.
We saw everything. And I remember that year, my parents had opted not to see Troilus and Cressida, because it's Troilus and Cressida. And I saw it as a part of this program, and I wrote my college admission essay on that production.
It was so spectacular, and it was the first time that I really saw how direction and design shape a story. And it was so formative for me. And after that, they were like, okay, I guess we're seeing everything.
And we'd see nine plays in five days, because you just kind of never knew what was going to be the spectacular show of the season, which, by the way, Troilus and Cressida this season is going to be a spectacular show, so everyone should see it. But you know, it's such a I'm so grateful that that was my theater education, because it was also a place where they were doing August Wilson, Lynn Nottage. They were doing all of these non-Western classics.
All of the Shakespeare had women and people of color populating the world, so that that was my education of what theater and Shakespeare is. And I know that not everybody gets that, so it's really, it was a beautiful thing that that's the theater I grew up on.
[Ryan Paul]
I think, Lauren, that I'm, it's like a time machine. Oh, yeah. Like this is like you, this is you as an adult.
[Lauren Bird]
Yeah, yeah.
[Ryan Paul]
And if you told me, Beth, that you studied engineering in college, then I'd like, it would be freaky.
[Lauren Bird]
Yeah. You studied engineering in college? I'm currently studying engineering in college.
Oh my gosh, I'm so impressed.
[Ryan Paul]
Not the cool kind of engineering that drives a train, but you know.
[Lauren Bird]
But I could make a train. You could make a train.
[Ryan Paul]
Anyway.
[Lauren Bird]
I mean, that's pretty cool.
[Ryan Paul]
Yeah, that's pretty cool. So I, you and I have talked over the, over the year or two, and I was so moved, not only by As You Like It last year, but we've mentioned, I've mentioned this to you before, you said something in a, in a, I don't know what it was, a video of preview of the show that was transformative for me. That I talked to Lauren about, that I took back to the classroom in all my history classes, because I think this quote is so relevant to not just the play, I talked about it in The Grove, but, but to history as well.
I mean, I think there's a interesting dichotomy between theater and history, right? Because in theater, you see people make choices and you see the consequences of those choices. And in history, you see people make choices in real life and see the consequences.
So I think it's interesting. But this is the quote, and I wrote it down again, so I wouldn't forget, because I have it multiple places in my world. And you say this, transported to the forest of Arden, where who they were no longer matters, and who they want to be and who they can become is suddenly a possibility.
And I think that is the most wise thing I've heard in a long time. This idea that they go to a place and who they are doesn't matter. And when they, and who they want to be, can be a reality.
They come out transformative, as they say. And, and it works in the play, you get that. But I think theater, even from what you just said in your experience, is the same thing.
You come in as one person. And if the job is done right by both the director, the actors, the designers, and the audience, you come out different. Is that fair to say?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah. I mean, I think that, you know, there are studies about audiences' heartbeats syncing up while watching plays. I mean, what a beautiful thing that you go into a place.
And especially now, you know, when we're so tied to our screens, and we don't know what's real on the screens anymore. I'm hoping that it's a real resurgence of people wanting something live. Because you're watching it happen in front of your eyeballs with other people and experiencing it.
And yeah, I think that there's kind of nothing like laughing with a group of people that you don't know, or crying with a group of people you don't know. It makes you feel connected on a human level. And something that you saw on stage moving you, maybe even by people that are different than you.
And it makes you feel connected to them. Or I had a student say to me once about one of my productions, that this production made me feel less alone. It's like, isn't that the goal?
And as a director, I was talking about this with someone recently, I'm only kind of directing the production that I want to see. Do you know what I mean? Or I'm directing to the humor that I think is funny.
And so there's a huge vulnerability in that. Because you put that out there, and you're sort of like, I hope I'm not alone in this. And then when people connect with it and resonate with it, it just, it, that connection just continues to build and build and build.
And it also allows you to evolve into, you know, this is, you know, in kind of always my 10th iteration of Hamlet. And this is, this production could only exist at this moment in time, with this people in this place, with who I am right now. And that's the beautiful thing about creating art is, especially this kind of art, because you can't do it alone.
So it's, it's a perfect combination of a moment in time, and who everybody is right now. And if we all got together, the exact same people five years later, it would be wildly different. If we did it again in a month, but swapped out a person, it would be wildly different.
The world changes based on the people that are involved. And that's, that's a beautiful thing. And they're going to be different versions of themselves than the last time that you were in a room with them.
[Ryan Paul]
It's not the challenge though, in some ways in that, that you, and I want to talk about the process of directing here at the festival, right? I mean, but you, you based on the timeline, you're hired, you get your cast, you're only here for, I mean, by the time the show opens, you leave, right? And it's up to the stage manager or somebody else to kind of keep your vision alive.
But, but there has to be, I mean, isn't that the challenge that you say, this is where I, this is the puzzle. This is the thing that I see. And then these people go on living their lives, performing the show for another two and a half months.
And it's gotta be a little bit, there's gotta be some flexibility, right? Oh, for sure. By the time you come back.
I mean, you've ever come back to a show and said, this isn't what I thought.
[Beth Lopes]
It's a good question. You know, from time to time, because I'm an associate artistic director at New Swan Shakespeare Festival in Orange County. And we do, we usually do a pickup rehearsal halfway through the season.
We're all come down and see the show. Every once in a while, something has gone a little bit off the rails, but it's, it's usually not the whole show. It's usually, you know, something that, you know, the kernel of something that then went down a different road.
I'm trying to think of an example of like, you know, like a scene that had a little bit of ad-libbing, and then you come back and there's so much ad-libbing that the rhythm of the scene is gone. And then, and you go back and you tighten it a little bit. But, you know, I think that last year I came back, I think it was closing week to see, to see the Shakespeare shows again.
And I was in awe of how consistent the shows were. I mean, our stage managers here are incredible. You know, the, the actors are such professionals that it was really evolved and deepened.
But the core framework of the show was still really, really consistent. And I think the hope is that as a director, that if you create a structure that feels solid, that people are invested in, that the actors also feel like they know what the story is and they're invested in it, that it will deepen and evolve on those same tracks as opposed to, well, great, the director's gone. Now we can do what we want.
You know, that hopefully if people feel ownership over the show, they, you know, they take good care of it.
[Ryan Paul]
Well, and I think As You Like It breathed really well last, last season. I think it's right. It was, it was wonderful to see people talk about it who had seen it early on and saw it towards the end.
And it really aged in all the best possible ways.
[Beth Lopes]
Well, and I think that with this schedule, even though we're here for, you know, I'm here for seven weeks, which is pretty long, you know, for a directing contract, because we're rehearsing all these plays at the same time, it's not a ton of rehearsal time. So I think very often we are working up until opening to, you know, solidify, tweak, you know, refine, polish. And so when opening happens, it's definitely the beginning of that sort of process where we've sort of locked something in that now can breathe and deepen and grow.
But, you know, sometimes you can get, you can get the runs to lead up to opening to make it feel like you've arrived there a little bit earlier. But I think here there's such big plays and it's a relatively short timeline that, and with people like me and John and Carolyn, we're working up until the last minute. I'm like, everyone can breathe when I'm gone.
But we're going to try to get the best play that we can before I go.
[Ryan Paul]
So you're here directing this season, our 65th season of Hamlet. And Hamlet was one of the first shows that the festival did back in the very first season. And it's running in rep with Troilus and Cressida and Twelfth Night in the Ingolstadt Theater.
And I want to take our first break, but when we come back, I want to talk about Hamlet as a play, as a process, as your experience with this particular production. And we'll go from there. So those of you who've listened to the Apex Radio Hour before, and you can find that on any podcast platform, we, instead of doing commercials, we ask our guests to give us a list of four or five songs that resonate or mean something to them.
And the Shakespeare Festival edition is no exception to that rule. We ask our guests to provide songs. And you've chosen a pretty eclectic mix, I think.
And you specifically had a reason for the songs you chose. Will you tell us what the reason was?
[Beth Lopes]
Yes, I was feeling very overwhelmed by choosing four or five songs from anywhere. So I decided to limit myself to my Hamlet playlist. So these are all songs that are on my Hamlet playlist that I listen to when I'm working on the play or want to get in the mood to work on the play.
[Ryan Paul]
Okay. So the first song that I've chosen for us to listen to is Seven Devils by Florence and the Machine, partly because I love Florence and the Machine. But go ahead and tell us why you chose this particular song.
[Beth Lopes]
I found that with my playlist, and actually a few of the songs fit into this, I really was attracted to songs that have a lot of suspension and release and build and that sort of feel epic in nature. And this one is no exception. It's so epic in nature.
But there's also this quality of haunting. You know, the ghosts in our production are very heavily featured and the song is very haunting. I think that the idea that there's these malevolent forces that are at bay in the song and that she's fighting against them and it's sort of like her safety or ease, you know, is thrown out the window in order to do the task that she has to do.
And it just very much feels in the realm of Hamlet and the vibe of the show.
[Ryan Paul]
Okay. This is Seven Devils by Florence and the Machine.
[Lauren Bird]
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes Seven devils in your house See I was dead when I woke up This morning I'll be dead before the day Begins for the dawn Before the day begins for the dawn Before the day begins for the dawn Seven devils all around you Seven devils in your house This morning I'll be dead before the day Begins for the dawn Seven devils all around you Seven devils in your house See I was dead when I woke up This morning I'll be dead before the day Begins for the dawn Believe in us Don't hold us Don't take your heart Don't take your soul Don't help me now Believe in us Seven devils in your house See I was dead when I woke up This morning I'll be dead before the day Begins for the dawn Before the day begins for the dawn That was Seven Devils by Florence and the Machine. You're listening to the Apex Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
[Ryan Paul]
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with director Beth Lopes. She is a festival director this season for Hamlet.
And you were here in Great Expectations, was the show that your assistant directed, right?
[Beth Lopes]
Great Expectations the musical and Macbeth that Joe Hanready directed.
[Ryan Paul]
I remember that because I was working, they did this thing called Festival in Five for a long time ago where they did these short little videos they could post and we did one on Great Expectations. And I remember, we can talk about that later, but it was an interesting experience to say the least. And many of our patrons have seen that and that was a big interesting production.
[Beth Lopes]
I mean, that's the beautiful thing about Shakespeare festivals is 16 years ago isn't that long for people who've been coming for 30, you know?
[Ryan Paul]
Yeah. The only thing I want to think that always stuck in my mind was the actor, one of the actors in the play, the musical was also in the movie U-571, which I always thought U-571 was a pretty cool movie.
[Beth Lopes]
I remember that, yeah.
[Ryan Paul]
Okay. So let's talk about Hamlet. We'll talk later about the process of you coming to direct it.
Hamlet, when you think about a Shakespeare play and people say, oh, tell me a Shakespeare play, Hamlet is always up there. And I always tell people that people are somewhat surprised that scripts are edited, right? And some seem to change, characters are combined, moved around and some people get really offended by that and I was like, listen, you don't want to see an uncut version of Hamlet.
That's how I feel. I mean, that's a long mama-jama, right? It's a long night.
So let's talk about Hamlet in your experience. So when you were asked to direct, you didn't get a choice. They said, John D'Antonio, the artistic director, and you as artistic director would say to a director, we would like you to direct this show.
[Beth Lopes]
Well, he asked me if I'd like to be considered for it and then we had a conversation about it. So he wanted to hear what my thoughts were about the play and perhaps anything conceptually and so we talked about it and he also asked me, because I had done As You Like It, he said, is your process any different for a tragedy than it is for a comedy? It was funny because I had to sort of think about it and ultimately the answer was no.
I tend to approach these plays from the point of view of what would a human do? Just thinking about the humanity of these characters and dignity and what ends up happening is that usually there's more tragedy in the comedies and more comedy in the tragedies because I think that humans are so weird and complex and so when you really focus in on what would a human do rather than an archetype, things become a little bit messier in a beautiful way. So I don't think I really have a different process but what it ends up manifesting is, I think we have some quite funny moments in Hamlet but I was very honored that John would even consider me to direct Hamlet, let alone hire me to do it.
So when, but you've done it before, you've directed Hamlet. I have but it's funny, this is my third full production I've done of Hamlet but I haven't worked on it in 10 years so it was kind of perfect because it felt so new in so many ways and I think I wrote about this in my program note that I wrote months ago but there's so many things about Hamlet that feels like an old friend but then feels sort of shockingly new when you have new people in the roles and on the production team and creative team because there are so many stories that are not spelled out in the script that there's so many incredible relationships and conflict but not a lot of answers actually and so every production that I've directed has felt incredibly different and that is definitely true with this production as well. So you have to sort of greet the play where you are right now and then with the team that you have and so casting was incredibly important, building our world from the people and then our incredible designers of building sort of what I felt like was important about telling the story and then filling it in with the detail of individual artistry which is a beautiful thing.
[Ryan Paul]
And you had no say over casting. Oh, no, no, I did. Did you get to decide who you wanted your Hamlet to be?
Yes, I did. Thank you, John D'Antonio. Which is unusual, right, sometimes?
I mean, sometimes the directors don't get that opportunity.
[Beth Lopes]
Absolutely, and I think especially with a role like Hamlet and especially at a festival. So, no, I was very grateful that I was involved in that process.
[Ryan Paul]
Should we mention, I mean, do you want to talk about your Hamlet?
[Beth Lopes]
Walter. Walter Kamitz is our incredible Hamlet. Yeah, he's terrific.
He was Touchstone last year in The As You Like It that I directed And Macbeth. And Macbeth, yes. He played Macbeth as well.
And, yeah, I mean, I think that it felt I think it's fine to say this but I think it felt important for both John and I that it was someone that had been a part of the festival as a Shakespeare Festival baby. That is really important to me because I do think that growing up in this sort of environment especially with a role like Hamlet if it had been somebody completely new I think I would have been like, what? Who's that?
I think that there's something about the audience already having buy-in with an actor that they love but I also will say it's nice having buy-in from the company as well from internally. So, you know, Walter, there were so many factors and we basically let anyone who wanted to put something on tape for Hamlet to do it because it felt really important too that it's such an iconic role that anyone who wanted to audition for it could. So we did that and then we called back people and I gave them a specific piece and direction and I think the thing about Walter that I love is he's just so himself in everything that he does and he plays these different characters but he always feels really authentic to who he is as a person which I think is so important for Hamlet that we feel like we're just watching a person up there rather than a performer, if that makes sense.
So that was a quality I think as far as company buy-in he's somebody that, you know, I loved working with him last year he argues with me in all the best ways that we come at things from different points of view and I think the work is stronger because of it but I always feel like we're just in the trench together figuring it out. His work ethic is insane. He comes in so prepared.
He's thought about it the entire year in advance I know because we've talked about it but also I personally witnessed him last year be kind and curious to everyone. Every single person at the festival he is so interested in what they do and how they do it and I think that is a quality too that is really nice for a role like this because, let's be real, everybody wants to play Hamlet and so having that sort of buy-in that people know how hard he works and how kind and curious he is and what a good company member he is that all feeds into the energy that the show has.
So all of those things kind of combined made him the right choice for this production and he's also very funny which to me is really important because I think that the play can be a real slog if there aren't moments of humor and lightness and he has such great drive and athleticism which also I think just gives a lot of spirit to the play. So yeah, I was very pleased that I got say in the casting and I think everyone was very happy that that was the choice.
[Ryan Paul]
I think it's interesting seeing and you talk about the festival idea of repertory where we don't just have him playing Hamlet I mean, he's Achilles and to see him, it's just a very interesting juxtaposition between these two characters.
[Beth Lopes]
You saw the first dress of him.
[Ryan Paul]
Yeah, yeah. We talked about this on the way down because I have to see the dress rehearsal because I have to talk about him but even the hair is...
[Beth Lopes]
Yes, his Achilles hair may just steal the season.
[Ryan Paul]
Yes, there you go. This may come as a shock to you, Lauren but I did not submit a tape for Hamlet.
[Lauren Bird]
Wow, a shame. A true shame.
[Ryan Paul]
I did for Yorick but they didn't work out. So I want to talk about this particular production. As you and I talked about, I saw it the other night and there are three things that I kind of want to ask about that I think were interesting to me and you can tell me that I'm right or wrong I mean, I don't like theater, everything is subjective but you can say that.
So one of the things that I found interesting in this production, I've seen Hamlet a few times is that oftentimes the show is centered around the actor that plays Hamlet and everything else just kind of fits into that. Like that's the hub of the wheel. I didn't feel like that in this production.
I felt that everyone in that play made the play Hamlet. There were characters developing their own stories and their own scenes and it wasn't just about this whiny kid that's going crazy that doesn't, you know we focus on all the weird psychological things but this was seemed to be a really true collaborative production.
[Beth Lopes]
Ryan, who paid you to say that to me? Because that's kind of the nicest thing that you could say to me about this play because that is how I feel. I think that I really treat really almost every play that I work on as an ensemble piece.
And I think that while Hamlet, he is the center, he is the hub, you know, but he, to me he is only interesting in context to the world and the people that he's existing within. And the relationships can be so detailed and vibrant and I think should have so much history that I feel so grateful that we have such an incredible team and everyone was so game to sort of go deeply into those other relationships, what's happening on the periphery and how that affects what Hamlet is going through. So that truly, I cannot tell you how much that means to me that you said that because I do think that I wanted this to be a production that did not feel like Hamlet and Friends.
That it really felt like a complete world, the play Hamlet rather than the role Hamlet. So I'm just thrilled that that's how you felt.
[Ryan Paul]
I thought it was, I mean, and what I, there's a combination of people who are newer to the festival and people who will remember, although I will tell you this, that Hamlet isn't the greatest tragedy that's being played this season. The greatest tragedy was that Blake Henry had to shave his beard. That dude is a bearded wonder.
But I was like, oh man, what have you done?
[Beth Lopes]
You can talk to Twelfth Night about that. But also look at his sweet face that I've never seen because he always has a beard. And Blake is so terrific as Laertes in the show as well.
And I think that to talk about Laertes for a second, that's a role that I often feel like with Laertes, he's a hothead looking for a fight. And I felt like with Blake that he would be able to make this part into something that, he is only doing what he does at the end of the play because of how much he loves his family and how devastated he is by what's happened to them. And Hamlet even says, in a line that is important to me, Hamlet says that, by the image of my cause, I see the portraiture of his.
I've done to Laertes what was done to me. And that giving sort of dignity to the Polonius family and that making them a family unit that we're rooting for only feeds when Laertes comes back in. And so I was really hopeful, and I think Blake has done a terrific job that he felt like the right person to me to make that feel like it's all from a place of love.
And that was something that was a focus, even though we're leaning into some of the darker death macabre elements with the ghosts and stuff, but that the love is really, really important to me. I think it's just always more interesting if people are making choices out of love. And frankly, I think that it ends up being more vicious and darker when people have that deep, deep investment.
And so one of the things in the script that is always a big mystery is, particularly the female characters, which I, in all my productions, try to really highlight them as real people, but how Gertrude feels about anything. How she felt about Hamlet Sr., how she feels about Claudius. Does she know anything about what Claudius did to Hamlet Sr.?
There's nothing in the text to help us with that. Everything is so ambiguous, so you have to make choices. And in our production, we found it more interesting if Claudius and Gertrude are in love, and that drives Hamlet insane, and it feels like there's more to lose that you watch the first half of this kind of pretty functioning couple, and then it just disintegrates in the second half of the play.
And to me, that's just so much more interesting because there's more pathos. There's more to lose. And someone said to me recently, I've never cared about Claudius and Gertrude's relationship, and I do in this production, and that's awesome!
[Ryan Paul]
What was really beautiful about it, I think, is that you can play, I mean, she also loves Hamlet's dad. It wasn't like he was a mean guy to her, and now this other, the brother. I mean, it was in love, and it's often played in some cases that Gertrude can be this flighty, I just need a man kind of thing to tell me what to do, and it's refreshing in some ways to see that it's more tragic, quite frankly, to see that this couple is in love even though their relationship was founded on this horrible, horrible deed.
[Beth Lopes]
Totally. And Claudius even says one of the reasons that he did it was my queen. And Claudius has several bits of language where he talks about how much he loves Gertrude, and sometimes it's rare to actually see that, and I think we've really tried to invest in that.
And I think, I'm hopeful that part of the reason that you feel that way about the play, too, of not feeling like it's Hamlet and friends is that I think once we had Walter as Hamlet, and I think the fact that I had worked with him before, I felt like it was easier to be able to, when we were casting the other roles, be like, great, how does this person work with him? And that making sure we were finding the right combinations for this Hamlet. And so I think that is the way that the Hamlet does get centered in the production is that now we have to build this world around this Hamlet.
So thinking about Katie, Catherine Kell as Ophelia, they were my Touchstone and Audrey last year. Very different vibe. But I know the two of them now as performers.
I've worked with both of them. I know that the energy that they have with each other, that you can sort of capitalize on those things. Caelan obviously was Rosalind, and they had a vibe as Rosalind and Touchstone, and obviously it's different, but I also know how they work together, so that's really helpful.
And then finding really that older generation and figuring out, like, Tom Rivera, who's playing Hamlet Sr., there was something about him and Walter that just made sense to me. That the ghost of Hamlet Sr. is only in a few scenes. I've put him in a few more places, but that he's the catalyst for the whole play, so it's so important.
And so having someone like Tom, that dynamic, that energy just felt really right to me to sort of set things off. And then when you have Mare, who's playing Gertrude, who has worked with Caelan Howarth a lot, who's directing Troilus and Cressida, and Caelan and I became so close after last year, so that when you have these connections, Caelan's like, you're gonna love her, and I do. These shortcuts with people.
And that there's story that you can build around the people you have. So with Mare as Gertrude, I love a younger, vibrant, gorgeous Gertrude that is living her next act with Claudius. I sort of joke, like, first act is everything's coming up, Gertrude.
And then, pfft. But with Mare, it's like the storytelling is, if you look at her as Walter's mother, she had him young, and she did not have any other children. There's storytelling there.
And so you sort of embrace the story that you have. You know, our Claudius is sort of a young, handsome Claudius, you know, that he feels like Hamlet Sr.'s sort of younger half-brother. There's story there.
I'm like, yeah, that could drive Hamlet crazy. He's like, call me dad. And he's like, what?
So embracing the people you have and the story that you have, because this play can really hold it.
[Ryan Paul]
It can, and let's take our second break, because I want to talk about two other things that I found interesting, and I want to hear your comments on as well. But let's take our second break as we move into this thing. This is a song that you chose called Make It Rain by Ed Sheeran.
Can you give me some insight as to why you chose this?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah, the vibe of this song is so intense, and I really love it for Hamlet. It's sort of, it's dark and brooding, but also kind of sexy, which I feel like the play can be. Also just the initial lyrics of the sins of my father, the pain of my mother.
Like, it just feels very of the world to me. This is one of those songs that I think, before I was, you know, in a time where I wasn't even working on Hamlet, I heard it and kind of thought of Hamlet. It feels just very of the world and vibe.
Very Hamlet-y? Very Hamlet-y, yes.
[Ryan Paul]
All right, this is Make It Rain by Ed Sheeran.
[Lauren Bird]
When the sins of my father Lay down in my soul And the pain of my mother Will not let me go Well, I know they can't come far from the sky To refine the purest of kings And even though I know this fire brings me pain Even so, and just the same Make it rain Make it rain down, Lord Make it rain Oh, make it rain Make it rain Make it rain down, Lord Make it rain Make it rain The sea needs the water Before it goes out of the ground But it just keeps on getting harder And the hunger more profound I know there can come tears from the eye But they may as well all be in vain And even though I know these tears come with pain Even so, and just the same Make it rain Make it rain down, Lord Make it rain Oh, make it rain Make it rain down, Lord Just make it rain Make it rain When the seas are full of water Stops by the shore Just like the riches of Grindelwald Oh, no, no Never reach the pole And let the clouds fill with thunderous applause And let light there be the veins Fill the sky with all that they can draw When it's time to make a change Make it rain Make it rain down, Lord Make it Make it rain Make it That was Make It Rain by Ed Sheeran. You're listening to the Apex Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
[Ryan Paul]
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with director Beth Lope. She's currently directing Hamlet for this 2026 season of the Utah Shakespeare Festival.
She directed As You Like It last year and has done some other work for the festival in years past. So we were talking about some of these things in the play that I think are interesting that I wanted your insight on. One of the things that I always tell people in the Grove when we do these pre-show orientations, specifically with a show like Hamlet, where most people, you know, they've got 450 years to have seen it or read it or whatever.
So spoilers, there's no spoilers. But everyone is somewhat familiar with the story. So one of the things I try to do is tell them, well, look at things differently.
Look at the sound. Spend a moment focusing on the set and think about that. And the thing that I found interesting to me in this set, which I think is somewhat understated in my mind, are these four windows that are tilted.
And I was amazed by them, first of all, because they're beautiful. But am I correct in assuming that this is kind of a willy wonky, that's not the right word, but scwampus-y, unsettled place?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah, you got it. Yes. I mean, I think we wanted things to be simple, both with scenic and with costumes, something that felt like streamlined where we could really focus on the people and the story.
And Apollo, who did our scenic design, and truly all of the scenic designs this year in the Engelstadt are stunning. But yes, Hamlet feels like the most understated and simple one. But these windows, which are so beautiful, they sort of bring in this gothic vibe, which was something that, you know, the inspiration for the show is really Arthurian Mists of Avalon, because I love the idea of these castles and these buildings that are so old.
There's history in the stones, secrets in the walls. And I think that that world, the veil between our world and another world is very thin, that it feels like that's in the air. That was something that was the inspiration.
But then really keeping it stripped down and streamlined so that we can access the people. I think sometimes when things are far away conceptually, it's easy as an audience to be like, oh, they're different from us and to feel that distance. And I wanted to have that inspiration, but feel like they felt accessible to us.
And so with the scenic design, you know, there's something about the Engelstadt. I said to Apollo, I was like, I think we can just use the theater. You know, the theater feels right to me.
And so then what he did with these windows is he brought in that gothic element, but the fact that they're all tilted slightly downstage and slightly in towards the stage. That if you're in dead center, you can see how they all descend a little bit onto the stage. And we wanted it to feel like a crucible of sorts, that they are in this bubble with all of these feelings and all of these insane things that are happening in this place where the pressure feels immense.
And then in the second half, which I actually don't know that you necessarily saw yet because it hadn't been completely completed by first dress. But the window panels are all complete in the first half. And then the events of the first half of the play, particularly the end of the first act, that sort of large cue that I won't ruin in the podcast, but that it feels like we've blown out some of the windows.
So that in the second act, there's a bunch of panels that are removed in those windows. So it feels like the world is breaking a little bit. And also a wonderful benefit is that the major playing space is still completely open, which is nice.
[Ryan Paul]
Yeah, I was thinking there that it's an interesting time to be in a dress rehearsal. And then at one time, I don't know if you know this, they were open to the public. Oh my gosh.
Dress rehearsals for decades, for decades. It's only in the early 2000s that we closed them. Want me to tell you the story?
You know the story? No. So Fred thought it was important because that's how he started, right?
He went to Angus Bowmer and Angus Bowmer let him come to dress rehearsals and to sketch things. And so Fred thought, well, I'm going to do the same thing. And for decades, people could come and watch dress rehearsals.
And then someone watched a production of Midsummer Night's Dream. And as you mentioned, oftentimes in dress rehearsals, things aren't all the way done. And the guy playing Puck had dancers, I guess what's called a leotard, the guys wear.
And of course, they're form-fitting and his costume wasn't done. And some older lady thought how horrid that was that he was exposing himself in some ways. And didn't write a letter to Fred, wrote a letter to the sponsor of the play saying, you need to see what you're, this is pornography and everything else.
And the sponsor went to Fred and Fred was pretty incensed by that and said, from here on out, they're closed.
[Beth Lopes]
It's hard because, yeah, what you would see at first dress, I mean, there are whole costumes that are getting rebuilt. So, you know, it's very much still in progress. And for the costume designer, this is the first time that they're seeing them on stage.
It's the first time I'm seeing them. And for our lighting designer, Mike gets two hours of darkness a night. So everything is still very much in progress.
And yet you don't know what's a choice and what's just not done yet.
[Ryan Paul]
But I love it because I'm forming my own thoughts in a process. But I'm also not surrounded by, I mean, it's a fairly empty space, right? I'm sitting in the Engelstad with a handful of other people.
But what I was thinking getting there, the point is that you have the wooden O and then it funnels down to these windows that are type in that's shrinking that O space even more, that even adds thought and pressure to me as a visitor, as an audience.
[Beth Lopes]
I'm glad that's how they affected you.
[Ryan Paul]
The third thing is, and I'd never seen and thought about this in Hamlet before, and maybe it's because of what you had said earlier about where I am in my life. I mean, it's a difficult time to teach American history, specifically in Utah, about what we're not allowed to talk about, but how we have to be more thoughtful about talking about things that we think are important that are not there. And so I've been spending a lot of time in my classes and thinking about issues of class, and what that means.
And for the first time, I recognize that, and this isn't a spoiler because it happens in every version of Hamlet, Polonius gets killed, right? And he falls out of the curtain, I'm dead. And then there's 20 minutes of Hamlet and Gertrude, 20 minutes is an exaggeration, but a scene where they just talk about things while this dead guy's laying there.
And I just, I mentioned to Stuart Shelley, the education director, that for the first time I thought, it seems to me a very classist issue, that here are two wealthy royal people continuing their conversation while there's a dead guy on the floor. And there are other scenes in Hamlet where there certainly are, in my mind, issues of class not recognizing that other things are going on. Is that a fair?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah, and I think it's in the play. I mean, I think that Laertes says to Ophelia, and in fact, Polonius does too, Laertes says he's not, Hamlet isn't like unvalued persons. And in our production, you know, Blake gestures to him and her that we are unvalued persons, he's royal.
He's not going to marry you, girl. On his choice depends the health and safety of this whole state. And Polonius says the same thing to her, and that it's, that is very much a part of their relationship, of that they're not married.
And they may love each other very much, but is marriage a possibility? Polonius and Laertes don't seem to think so. And I think that that's very much in the play.
I think that there's, you know, the gravediggers talk about, funny enough that Ophelia not being royal, but then the gravediggers talk about that if she hadn't been a gentlewoman, she would have been buried outside of, you know, Christian burial, because, you know, she willfully seeked her own salvation. And it's sort of done in this joking way, but the two of them I think are representatives of sort of the everyday people that are like, I'll tell you this, if she hadn't been a gentlewoman, this wouldn't be happening. And they're like, yep, there thou sayest.
You know, and so I think that those things are very much within the context of the play as well. And granted, you know, Fortinbras is not in our production, so the political, larger political ramifications of so much of this is not one of our focuses in this production. But very much I think that that is still there.
And then you have these contradictions that are basically like, you know, Polonius and Laertes are like, he's never going to marry you. And then Gertrude at her grave is like, I thought, you know, to have decked thy bride bed, sweet maid, and not have strewed thy grave, like I thought you would have been my Hamlet's wife. It's like, really?
Because when was that? You know, there are these contradictions in the play. And once again with Gertrude, who I think is sort of one of the most mysterious characters, like you can play that as, well, it's convenient to say that now she's dead.
Or in our production, you know, I think that there's a lot of love between Gertrude and Ophelia.
[Ryan Paul]
And I think that there's an interesting, I think Polonius also is a really interesting take on this character as well. Because he could also be played as an older busybody manipulator and you don't get that.
[Beth Lopes]
No, I've definitely, some of that is cutting. I've cut, you know, there's a whole scene where he's basically spying on Laertes in France and kind of setting him up to do nefarious things to then catch him, which is totally cut because I think it's a part where that really makes me dislike Polonius. And I think that, so that and the combination of John Harrell, who's the actor playing him, who's just so delightful.
And that I really wanted the Polonii, as we call them, to be a family that we were rooting for. And so we definitely softened a lot of his edges because I think that once Laertes leaves and Hamlet is going through what he's going through, Polonius is Ophelia's person. And I think that the more we can lean into that being a relationship built out of love.
And that's not to say that he doesn't drive her crazy at times, but you know what parent doesn't, you know, I'm sure I drive my kids crazy. But that it's really based on love. It's like that to me helps her descent into madness.
That if, if really her, her eggs are in dad's basket and that he is becomes the, her rock that she has left. And then, you know, the love of her life kills him.
[Ryan Paul]
So what I love about this particular version of Hamlet is that who, who was it who said that about sculpting, like you, you just cut away the excess marble to get the, you know what I'm talking about? It's like a, I don't know who did it, but you know what I'm talking about that idea in that, that what has happened here is that you've taken this play and that, that is familiar to anyone who really thinks about Shakespeare and have, have for lack of a better term, cut away the excess marble to create a relevant, vibrant vision of this story.
[Beth Lopes]
I'm so grateful to hear you say that. And that's how you felt about it. I think that there, you know, there will be lines and scenes that people are like, Oh, I love that.
And I miss it, you know, and that that's always, that's always bound to happen. But you know, our, our brilliant dramaturge Leslie Cross on the first day of rehearsal said this wonderful thing. And I cannot remember who she attributed the quote to, but it was if the Mona Lisa is in the Louvre, where is Hamlet?
And the idea that Hamlet is a larger work. And even, even the text itself is not something that's set in stone. It's, what did she say?
It was like, it's an unstable text because there are so many different versions of it and different language. And so when we pick up an edition of it, we're already getting that editor's opinions about which scene goes where, what language goes where. And that, and that for instance, like to be or not to be shows up in a bunch of different locations, depending on the version that, that you you're looking at.
And so how she framed it to us is that this version of Hamlet that we're telling is our contribution to the larger work. It is our edition that we are contributing and it's not going to include everything. And the story is going to focus on a specific thing, but I loved that way of thinking about it, that we are contributing to the larger work of Hamlet with this particular edition.
[Ryan Paul]
So if you're a member of the Fortinbras Appreciation Society, you might be a little bit disappointed, but you'll find a whole new world to appreciate.
[Beth Lopes]
I hope so. I hope so. And I think that sometimes when you, when you, when you contextualize things in a different way, I'm hoping you can hear it in a new way too.
Like for an example of last year with All the World's a Stage, it's such a famous speech, but I'm interested in why does Jaques say this right now with these people? And so it very much became sort of a communal event as opposed to we're going to stop the play for this famous speech. It's like, no, how does this famous speech serve this moment in the play?
Because it's the first time this person has ever said these words. And so Hamlet has so many iconic speeches in this play, but why is he saying this now? And in fact, you know, Rogue and Peasant, that entire speech, the origin of it is the player.
And, and, you know, I've been talking because people have been really responsive to, to the players as sort of a troop rather than first player and friends, player King and friends. And that was something that we really worked on partly because I feel like our industry is sort of being threatened and you know, our academic programs for theater are being cut that like, so it felt important to emphasize these players and their artistry. As Hamlet says, they're the chroniclers of our time.
But also they actually inspire a lot of really important plot that it's because of what he is doing that inspires that whole speech. It's because of their play within the play that Claudius goes and has that chapel scene and confesses to us. So the work has to be good and important.
And so it's, it's fun to be able to emphasize those things in a way that to me makes sense because of story, but maybe you're a bit different than, and you know, Ophelia is in probably five more scenes than she's in, in the original text. But part of that is in the original text, nunnery is the first time they're on stage together. How am I supposed to care about this couple breaking up when I've never seen them together?
So that's part of that to me is, is like showing because we hear it, you know, we hear it in the scenes, but it's different when you see it, when you see two people together and you see them intimate physically, you can kind of click into their relationship in a way that if you just hear about it, it doesn't feel the same.
[Ryan Paul]
Well, it, it made me feel, it allowed me to feel again in the forest of Arden that who I wanted to be or who in this case, who I didn't want to be could not be a possibility anymore. Does that make sense? That, that, that I, like the idea of transformative power theater works both ways.
It's like I can aspire to be something or I can recognize what I don't want to be. And I think that's in some ways how, and those are equally valuable lessons. In fact, probably the deciding what I don't want to be is probably even more important than, than aspiring to be something.
[Beth Lopes]
Well, and I think if you invest in the love too, it's also, you see, you know, I, I feel like with, with Hamlet and Ophelia, so, so often I think she is used essentially as like a prop in his story. And when she's a fully fledged human that has a real relationship with him, it also makes me kind of, um, I don't, sometimes I, sometimes I hate Hamlet for the way that he treats her. And I think that what we're striving for in our production is that it's a much more that he has much more power than her in the world, but that there, it is a much more equal dynamic.
And so that you sort of watch this train wreck as opposed to like this woman just get completely, um, destroyed by him and the circumstances, but that you watch these two people that do really love each other, just like miss over and over and over again. And it's funny because even after the nunnery scene, what we've found in the mousetrap at the play that they have all of, all of these exchanges. And we found that the more combative they are with each other, the more it feels like their relationship isn't over.
[Lauren Bird]
Yeah.
[Beth Lopes]
And it feels like they're still just in the thick of it, you know, couples who fight.
[Ryan Paul]
Beautiful. And, and I will tell you, we're not going to spoil this, but, uh, the ending is incredible. My, we, my eight year old daughter actually loves Shakespeare and went to the play and stayed awake the whole time.
And, and the big question she had was the ending. So we're not going to spoil that. That's for another time.
[Beth Lopes]
Well, once again, that's very nice to hear because we still have a lot of work to do.
[Ryan Paul]
As you say, what did the grave digger say? Thus sayeth it. What was the word?
What's the line you used about just a minute ago about the, the, Oh, there thou sayest. As the director there that you should have all your actors respond in that way. There thou sayest.
Okay. So let's take our, our final break. Um, this is a song which I had never heard before, but I've been entranced by I may be entranced isn't the right word.
Cause it's pretty hardcore, but, uh, it's blood water. I don't know how to talk about the two. I know blood slash slash water by grandson.
Can you tell us why you chose this song?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah, this is, this is a relatively new song to me, but I also, I heard it and I was just, yeah, pretty, pretty transfixed by it. Um, I, I think that this production, because I feel like with these plays that have existed for so long, when we do them again, we have to have a reason. That's how I feel.
It has to speak to what's happening right now. And the thing that really struck me is this burden placed on a next generation of that Hamlet's sort of whole life gets taken over by this mandate from the ghost of his father. Um, that feels very out of character from who we know him to be.
He's not, he's a scholar, he's a student, he's not a violent person and that, and he's lost agency in this way. And in fact, it's funny because even the story of who Hamlet is as a character gets sort of taken because all you hear about is how indecisive Hamlet is. And it drives me nuts because it's like, if you think about putting yourself in those shoes, like he's not a killer.
And the ghost of his father comes and says he has to murder his uncle. And he thinks about it for a little bit. I mean, that to me seems logical and wants proof, you know?
Oh my gosh. So the idea that he's indecisive, but still in the same way, the narrative of who the character is has gotten completely co-opted by this mandate from, you know, the, this legacy of, of revenge. And so what I love about this song, in addition to the sort of suspension and build and release that I, that I seem to have found with a bunch of these songs in the Hamlet playlist is this emphasis on, you know, the, the line, the price of your greed is your son and your daughter.
And that something I'm, I feel like I see in our world is, is this being born into legacies of hate and revenge and the burden that puts on our next generation. And if, if, if they could let that go and see what's in front of them, that the world would be a better place. And so I think that's, that's where the song lives for me in, in the world.
[Ryan Paul]
Okay. This is blood water by grandson.
[Lauren Bird]
Out of the price of your greed is your son and your daughter. Look me in my eyes. Tell me everything's not fine.
And the river has run dry. You could go, but the system is done. If you listen closely, the price of your greed is your son and your daughter.
For me, admit you were toxic. You poisoned me just for another dollar in your pocket. Now I am the virus sickness silence.
Beg me for forgiveness. The price of your greed is your son and your daughter. When you start on the road.
Oh, that was blood water by grandson. You're listening to the apex radio hour, Utah Shakespeare festival edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
[Ryan Paul]
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with director Beth Lopes. This is our final segment.
And if you've ever listened to the apex radio hour, this is about what's bringing us joy. So first of all, I'm going to say thank you Beth for being here and talking with us. And I'm going to ask you this question, Beth Lopes, what are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
[Beth Lopes]
It's I'm hesitating because I have watched and listened and played to so little since I've been here because I've been so focused on Hamlet. Um, so I think I've turned on my television twice since I've been here. So I I'm trying to figure out exactly what it is.
I mean, but before I came, I was playing this video game called the Talos principle two, which I really enjoyed. And it was very much about sort of what it means to be a human. And that felt like a nice thing going into Hamlet.
Um, and I guess in the sillier sense, uh, Walter can meet our Hamlet taught me how to play smash brothers, uh, couple of weeks, which I'd never played before. So that was really fun too, because I felt like it allowed us to, um, I don't know, just sort of like do something silly and not think about Hamlet a little bit.
[Ryan Paul]
Well, just remember the, one of the lessons we have from Hamlet is when you don't focus on other things and only focus on one thing. It's true.
[Beth Lopes]
What happens? It's true. It's true.
[Ryan Paul]
Great theater. That's what happens. Thank you.
Lauren bird. What are you currently watching, reading, listening to her playing that is bringing you joy.
[Lauren Bird]
So recently I read and I've been really excited for the TV show, but I haven't gotten to watch it yet. I've I read the other Bennett sister. So I hear the TV shows.
Amazing. I want to see it. It looks so good.
I keep seeing stuff about it on Instagram, but the book is delightful. It's just fun to get like a different perspective on a book and story that I already love in pride and prejudice. And having Mary be a really relatable characters, just fun and different.
So I enjoyed it.
[Ryan Paul]
Cammy and I were, we were, we're like, cause only half hour episodes, but I want to wait for the whole season to drop before I, but that's on the list.
[Lauren Bird]
It's no, I just haven't watched it. Cause it's on Brit box and my parents also want to watch it. So we need to find a time when we can watch through all of it.
And like a week long trial sort of situation.
[Ryan Paul]
I'll let you, well, I guess I can't say that.
[Lauren Bird]
Okay. What about you, Ryan? What are you currently watching, reading, listening to her playing?
[Ryan Paul]
That's bringing you joy. I have always been, as you know, I teach classes on history of music, but I've always been a huge Ella Fitzgerald fan. I mean, she, to me, I even saw a play once called Ella and her fellow Frank.
It's a two person musical, but I am enamored by her. Her music is always what I turn back to. When I want to feel what I want to feel quite frankly.
And, but there's never been a really good solid biography of her until very recently. It's a book called becoming Ella Fitzgerald by Judith tick, which is beautiful and nuanced. And also has allowed me to discover more of Ella's music that I hadn't thought about, or even listened to for either before or in a long while.
So it's been a really just enveloping, comforting, powerful read of this amazing American icon. So becoming Ella Fitzgerald, that's what's bringing me joy.
[Beth Lopes]
Oh, you know what? Can I add one more thing?
[Ryan Paul]
Sure. You're the talent.
[Beth Lopes]
You can add whatever you want. What's actually been bringing me so much joy that I've been watching is on all my days off. I've been visiting all of the other rehearsals.
All of the other directors can attest, but I've just been a little creep in the back of their theaters, watching all of the other rehearsals. And it's been a total blast getting to like, go to those other worlds and you know, something rotten I had never seen before. It's been so much fun.
I love, she loves me. This production's incredible. I haven't been able to see, see how they run because it's opposite Hamlet, but I hear incredible things.
And then the other two Shakespeare plays has been, have brought me so much joy getting to watch those rehearsals.
[Ryan Paul]
Oh, good. Thank you, Beth Lopes for being here. We should mention that this is the 65, 65th anniversary of Utah Shakespeare Festival.
Hamlet is running in repertory in the Ingolstadt theater with Troilus and Cressida and Twelfth Night in the Randall. As Beth just said, we have see how they run. She loves me and something rotten.
And then the Ains will open in a few more weeks in July with the book club play and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. So it's a great season. If you want to listen or get tickets or have more information, look at bard.org.
If you want to listen to more apex radio, our podcast, you can find that under apex radio hour, wherever you get your podcasts, Beth Lopes. It has been a joy, a dream of mine to talk with you ever since we met last season. Thank you for sharing.
And Lauren, of course, always a pleasure. And so we want to go out with the last song that we're going to play viewers, which is called snow angel by Renee rap. Can you tell us why you told this launch?
[Beth Lopes]
Yeah. Once again, lots of great build, build and release, build and release. You know, man, can this woman saying it's, it's such an incredible song.
I just am a little bit in love with the song, but I also think that there's something about the idea of measuring your own worthiness by the other people's opinions of whether you're worthy or not. And that, that word in particular, I think that there's some Ophelia stuff in here that resonates with me. I think that the idea of getting through a really hard season of your life.
And I think that her vocals are just incredible and so emotional. It, it, it felt of the world.
[Ryan Paul]
Okay. Thank you. Thanks again.
And as in the words of the great American poet, Bill Withers, I wish you well.
[Beth Lopes]
Thank you for having me.
[Lauren Bird]
It's hard to laugh. It's hard to breathe. It's white outside, but underneath.
I'll make it. I can make it faster. If I.
What's the key. If you. She looks like me.
I'll make it. I can make it faster. If I.
In the snow. I tried. It's.
I. I. I would do.
It goes. In the snow until. Me.