Join host Ryan Paul on a warm, delightful edition of the APEX Radio Hour for a conversation with Broadway veteran and Utah Shakespeare Festival actor Brian Gonzales. Brian reflects on his multi-generational family roots in television and theater, his journey originating roles in Aladdin on Broadway, and his approach to bringing character roles to life. From the comedic physical theater of Nostradamus in Something Rotten to the grounded, protective heart of Sipos in She Loves Me, this episode explores the transformative power of authentic community and live storytelling.
A Lifelong Performing Career: Guest Brian Gonzales traces his journey growing up in Dallas and San Antonio, raised by a television crew chief father and a blues singer/director mother, leading to his Broadway debut in The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee.
Crafting Iconic Character Roles: An inside look at originating Babkak in Aladdin on Broadway and stepping into two distinct 2026 Randall Theater roles at USF: the explosive, comedic seer Nostradamus in Something Rotten and the delicate, pragmatic clerk Ladislav Sipos in She Loves Me.
The Interconnected Theater Community: Reflections on lifelong artistic partnerships, working alongside close friends like director Alan Muraoka and actor Blake Henri, and navigating the shifts of regional theater.
Connecting with the Audience: A deep dive into how actors read and respond to live audience energy, adjusting timing without losing the grounded emotional truth of a production.
Connect with SUU & The Festival:
Reese Whitaker 00:01
You are listening to the APEX Hour, hosted by Ryan Paul on KSUU Thunder 91.1. This show
allows more personal time with our guests, allowing them to give us their stories and opinions.
We will also give you new music to listen to, hoping you enjoy some new sounds and genres.
Welcome to this episode of the APEX Hour.
Lauren Bird 00:20
Welcome to the APEX Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival edition. I'm producer Lauren Bird,
and I'm here today with Director of APEX and Professor of History Ryan Paul, and our special
guest Brian Gonzales. I'll turn it over to you, Ryan.
Ryan Paul 00:31
Thank you, Lauren. We are so excited to have Brian Gonzales here today. He is an actor this
season in the Utah Shakespeare Festival in two of the Randall shows he pay he plays Ladislav
Sipos in She Loves Me and Nostradamus in Something Rotten. Not the Nostradamus, but a
relative,
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Brian Gonzales 00:50
Thomas Nostradamus.
Ryan Paul 00:51
Thomas Nostradamus. So we are excited to have you here. He is the first actor in the Randall
Studio, or Randall Theater that we've, we've had this season here to talk on the podcast, so
thank you, and we're excited to have you here.
Brian Gonzales 01:04
No, thanks for having me be here. I'm, I'm, I'm really excited to be here. I know, and Blake
Henri, who I know has been on the show, spoke highly of doing this, so I was really excited to
get the invitation.
Ryan Paul 01:15
Well, he hasn't heard his episode yet, so,
Brian Gonzales 01:17
Oops. But yeah, or yes, I, I enjoy those two roles that I'm playing, or, or Nostradamus, or as I
kept referring to him for some reason in the months building up to coming here, I kept saying I
was playing Nosferatu, which really confused people. But yeah, well,
Ryan Paul 01:35
That'd be a little bit of a different show, probably.
Brian Gonzales 01:37
Yeah.
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Lauren Bird 01:38
A little bit different.
Lauren Bird 01:38
Right?
Ryan Paul 01:39
So, and and I should also mention that Alan Muraoka, who we've had in the podcast before,
also has spoken with you, has, he worked with you on Broadway, right?
Brian Gonzales 01:46
Yes, he was a, I got the wonderful fortune of being in the Aladdin on Broadway cast. I was the
original Babkak, who was one of the three sidekicks. And Don Darryl Rivera, who is the original
Iago in that, and is still going strong, was out for like six weeks just to shake it up a little bit and
go do another show, and they brought in Alan, and he and I became fast friends. He was my
dressing roommate, and of course, he was a fantastic Iago. And then he became very lovely.
Excuse me, he became close friends with my my family as well, and he almost became almost
like an uncle figure to my son Simon, and and just became close to the whole family, and we've
maintained that friendship. So it's been it's been lovely to get to work with him again.
Ryan Paul 02:30
It seems to me the more I, I do this and talked with people that the world is smaller than we
think it is.
Brian Gonzales 02:36
Absolutely.
Ryan Paul 02:37
Right? Then and we're all connected. I mean, what was that game when I was a kid, six degrees
of Kevin Bacon or whatever, and,
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Brian Gonzales 02:43
Oh man.
Ryan Paul 02:43
And we find that that is probably, we're all six degrees from something, right?
Ryan Paul 02:49
Agreed.
Ryan Paul 02:49
So I, I like to start with a question, kind of how we get to now question. So can you tell us a little
bit about where you grew up and kind of how you decided to do what you do?
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Brian Gonzales 03:00
I grew up in Dallas, Texas. Well, sort of a split between Dallas and San Antonio because my
family, a lot of my family was in San Antonio at the time, and still are. So, but mostly I grew up
in Dallas. That's where I went to school and and discovered theater and stuff. And I was a my
father was in the television business for 50 years or so. Well, 45, 50 years, something like that.
And he worked at WFAA TV Channel Eight in Dallas. And my mother was originally a blues
singer on the River Walk in San Antonio, and she continued to do directing, costuming, acting,
you name it. And I was terrible at soccer, so I went theater, and and that seemed to do the
trick. Especially since I kept telling my folks I wanted to be Captain Kirk, and they were like,
"Isn't that cute? Do you want a cotton?" Like, "No, I want to be Captain Kirk." "Well, you can't
be Captain Kirk, but maybe you can play Captain Kirk one day," and and so they got me into
theater, and that's been great ever since. And I have been very fortunate to be working a lot of
that time. I mean, I'm 53 now, and I've basically been doing theater since I was four, and got to
work professionally from those times. And when I debuted at four years old as the Angel of the
Lord's bongo player, which is in some edition of the Bible somewhere, I'm certain. So, and then
yeah, I've been very fortunate in some of the things that I got to do, and and now I'm here,
well, New York for almost almost 20 years with my wife and and family and various sundry
dogs, and that was a great experience. We loved our life out there, and then during the
pandemic, we came back to Texas because, well, it was, just Ashley was supposed to be
directing a show in Dallas. She went, "Look, your show's down for a while. Come, come to Texas
with me while I'm directing the show." Then that got canceled, and then we stayed. And I went
and moved us out of New York, and we stayed because, and I hope this isn't too much
information, but we, my son Simon has autism spectrum and anxiety disorder and 99th
percentile sensory processing disorder and all of that kind of stuff. My father in law has
extreme dementia, and so we take care of each other. So we've lived multi gen since the
pandemic, and that's, that's been a great way for all of us to take care of each other, and then
because of, between jobs that I do here and there in Dallas, and and Ashley directs a lot in
Dallas, I occasionally get to come out and do something regional, and this was one of them.
And I was, Alan Muraoka called me one day, he was actually sitting with Blake Henri, again, at a
dinner table, and they both called me and said, Alan said, will you submit a tape for, Nosferatu
for Nostradamus? And I said, "Great!" And so I sent it off, and then I got offered that and and
Sipos, which was really, which was really lovely. And here I am and having a ball.
Ryan Paul 06:01
So what what did your what did your dad do in the television world?
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Brian Gonzales 06:06
Oh, you name it. Lighting, editing, sound, but he was eventually a crew chief. So he was the, he
was in charge of specifically all, the entire crew that did the news, that did, they had a game
show called Wiz Quiz for a while, and he he did that, and he was in charge of those things. And
he was actually, if I may brag on him a little bit, he was a fairly respected guy. When Peter
Jennings would come in on an occasion to do a local thing, he would ask for my dad. He was,
because he trusted my dad. He liked him, and Mr. Jennings, rest his soul. If I may say, I know
he's not here to defend himself, but he was a lovely man and got along great with my dad, and
and it was really cool. So he did that kind of stuff for a long time. But yeah, every now and then
they would call him in to fix a piece of lighting or edit some something in the sound studio or
something because they knew he could he could, he could figure it out, and even as the
equipment and the technology advanced, you know, and he was trained on a certain type, he
always found time to go and learn these new things. So they knew they could trust him on that,
and if he didn't know, they know he would fairly shortly. So he had he had quite the, he had
quite the career there, and then, so when he finally retired, he retired at a time that's a lot of
people I think come to where they go, okay, now it's time. This has been great. Things are
moving forward without me to places. I'm not ready, I don't know, I have no interest in going
any further. So this has been great, and he retired with full respect and and and a lot of great
memories and a lot of good friends, and that's where he is.
Ryan Paul 07:42
So, was your was your dad born in Dallas? Was he?
Brian Gonzales 07:45
San Antonio.
Ryan Paul 07:46
So, so he gets involved in the news. I mean, this is probably, what a decade after the Kennedy
assassination in Dallas is where he comes in? And I would imagine that that period from the 70s
until what the 2000s is probably when he retired? That there is a pretty big, like that seems to
me that 2000 part is a big jump off with technology and everything else and the internet and all
that stuff.
Brian Gonzales 08:09
Absolutely, yes.
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Ryan Paul 08:11
Specifically for television news.
Brian Gonzales 08:12
And, and a lot of they, they changed where the studio was, and then of course, obviously
because of many events that we're all aware of, security became a wholly different process and
a much higher learning process, and or not higher learning, a much more high scrutiny process.
So those kinds of things, and then you know, new different cameras, different teleprompters.
Because I remember the teleprompter machine, you know, that was this this rolling thing, like
an like a conveyor belt that you put paper on, and it passed under a camera, and that's how
they got it up on the screen. And then the the cameras that finally was the monitor attached to
the end of the camera with a mirror on the camera face itself, so you could see the
teleprompter and all of that stuff. Then it became the teleprompter became a piece of glass
with almost this hologram on it of of things like that. So watching the technology progress that
far, and then of course after a while there was a whole series of newscasters and morning show
hosts and stuff like that that started just sort of circling through all the time. And he grew up
with, not grew up with. He did most of his work with people like Troy Dungan and and oh my
goodness, what's her name? Oh well, there were a lot of great people, John McKay, and and a
lot of great and they may have been more local celebrity dudes, but they were they were great
journalists. Iola Johnson, I knew I would think of it at some point. They were great journalists,
and not that these newer people weren't great. He just didn't know them. He didn't get as
much chance to spend time with them. And sometimes the way they were shuffled through as
crews, because they would do the morning show, or they would do the morning news, or then
they'd go do whatever, they didn't necessarily get the chance to form a bond with some of
these journalists, and so you know, just a different, a different style, a different style of
management. And then you know, we we came into a more sensitive time for people, you
know, people trying to be more sensitive to each other's needs and each other's feelings and
stuff like that, and and I will be honest, not a popular opinion, I'm sure. But on occasion, you get
someone that got oversensitive and decided to to make big to to make a negative thing out of
something that simply should have been a quick discussion. And that's in some cases
generational, and some some cases it doesn't matter what generation you're from, you can be
an a-hole.
Ryan Paul 08:13
Yeah.
Brian Gonzales 08:13
It's one of those things, you know? So,
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Ryan Paul 08:13
So, and I think that's fascinating world, right? The news world. Although you know,
teleprompters. You're an actor, you don't, you memorize your lines.
Brian Gonzales 08:13
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Ryan Paul 08:13
But what I'm interested about your mom, a blues singer on the Riverwalk. How does that come
about?
Brian Gonzales 08:13
She was a, she, she got really good with her guitar, and she had a heck of a singing voice.
Probably still does, although she didn't really get, she doesn't really use it much anymore.
Always creative and, and lots of ideas, and very fiercely intelligent, strong-willed person. And so
she got good at her guitar and stuff. And then she hooked a job up. There was a, I don't
remember the name of the place that she did it, but there was all kinds of restaurants and
clubs on the Riverwalk in San Antonio at the time, and so she got a job singing folk and blues.
And the blues side of her sort of tended to be more requested, and in that time she saw things
like a very young Janis Joplin, you know. And, and to see to see Janis Joplin live at a point where
she perhaps wasn't quite so chemically compromised, shall we say, was, she said was unreal,
and and everyone was like, who is that woman, and then of course she turned out to be Janis
Joplin. And she got to work with other people like B.W. Stevenson, and I think she sang with him
at one point, and and then she met, but then she other times would sit in or meet people like
Todd Rundgren, who she said was the strangest individual she ever met. But man, she, but
there was one of those, you're just weird, and I, but I like you a lot. And she said he was that,
and he was you know out there with his blue fingernails and and that kind of stuff, so she had a
lot of great experiences like that, and that parlayed into her trying to, that parlayed into her
finally, we both started sort of auditioning around town for certain things, and then she got cast
as Nancy in a production of Oliver, and she got to play Sally Bowles in Cabaret and all that
stuff, and so her career as an actor kind of started to shine. And then she got into directing, and
she was a really remarkable director. And I, you know, she's one of those people that will would
direct a production of the Fantasticks, and Fantasticks is a hard show to do. And of course,
obviously, I think there for certain reasons of, obviously one one song specific, people don't do
The Fantasticks, or they try to cut that song because it's very, very inappropriate today. But
back then, you know, she, she would direct the show and and find a way to truly reinvent it, or
or at least put some new life into it. And you know, she would encounter things like you know
people would just, people would not, people would either love the show or they would come in
and all they would say is I just hate this play, like well that's fine how'd you like, what did you
think of the production? I don't know I just hate the play, which is petty as far as I'm concerned,
you know, so, you know. I suppose even, I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but even
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a, I'm sorry, I, to explain, I'm, I, I'm sure I, I enjoyed what you were trying to do with it, but
sometimes I can't get past the material. That's fine. That's a better explanation to me than
simply being dismissive. But she continued, she persevered, and and then got into costuming
because that paid well, and she also had a real eye for it. She would she would build stuff from
scratch, you know, for some Elizabethan set play, or she, one of her masterpieces was a
production of Little Night Music, and everyone looked stunning. So when when Ashley and I got
married, they Ashley had saved and saved and saved for her, for the wedding, and she wanted
a specific look, and so we all, and my mother built all of the the ladies' basically Ascot inspired
dresses. I don't know if you, from My Fair Lady, the Ascot number at the horse races and stuff,
and so from that time, so everyone had these gorgeous hats and gorgeous dresses and stuff
like that. And we were certainly one of the best looking weddings because Ashley made it a
mission that she would not be one of the brides that had all of her bridesmaids look stupid,
right? Because that sometimes happens in some of these weddings. They get, you know this is
the color and dress kind, and I went yes, but no one looks good in that dress. She was like,
"That's never going to happen." So my mom was brought in. We looked fantastic, and quite
often we call our wedding "the coronation," not the wedding, just because it it was yoj and we,
we what is it, the processional? What's the one out? Anyway, we all left to I'm Getting Married
In the Morning and stuff like that. So it was, it was, it was quite a thing. But my mom had a,
quite a hand in making sure part of the, so it was stunning.
Ryan Paul 15:31
So it was on theme in in the best way.
Brian Gonzales 15:34
Yes, yeah.
Ryan Paul 15:35
So your mom is really kind of the gateway to you wanting to be in theater?
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Brian Gonzales 15:41
Yes. My father, yes. Because my father sort of was the one that was the gateway into all kinds
of music and cinema and all of this kind of stuff, and so was my mother. But my father was a DJ
also early in his, one point in his life, and so we had this record collection that was all over the
map, and it was great. And so between the two, so he was music and some cinema, and then
between the two of them, there was all kinds of films and stuff that they both introduced me to.
But it was my mother, you know, who was, I thought was a fantastic Nancy and all that kind of
stuff. That I had done some theater with her and done some theater, but once we started doing
more and more things like Oliver, and I got to participate backstage when she did Cabaret and
all of this kind of stuff, she was definitely the gateway to getting me and keeping me on the
stage.
Ryan Paul 16:29
So, what was the first thing that you remember wanting to be as a kid?
Brian Gonzales 16:36
At the time, one of the, there was the whole Captain Kirk Fiasco, but the the the first one role
that I just was dying to play was Dodger in, Artful Dodger in Oliver. I did not get that role
because the person, the kid that ended up playing Dodger, was cast because his mother made
a sizable donation to the theater, which was a great way of me learning what theater is all
about, and that that the business certainly doesn't go the way you want it to nine times out of
10. But I got to play Charlie Bates, who was one of the more featured pickpockets, and I still
had a wonderful time. I got to know some great people, and I was proud of my mom and all of
that stuff, and,
Ryan Paul 17:18
Charlie Bates, whose ancestor, whose ance, or descendant will be Norman.
Brian Gonzales 17:23
Yes, exactly.
Ryan Paul 17:24
You're waiting for that role too?
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Brian Gonzales 17:25
Oh my goodness, wow. Yeah. I don't know. I like my, I like my character parts. I like my, you
know, I wouldn't mind playing what, what is it? Martin Balsam's character that has that nice
reporter role and then he gets killed on the stairs, and I'm good with that. That I love that kind
of role. So yeah.
Ryan Paul 17:40
So did you, you, you start in I would imagine community type theater, and then do you, what
what is your educational path? Are you coming to acting through acting classes in schools? Do
you become like a journeyman apprentice actor? How does that work for you?
Brian Gonzales 17:59
I like, I worked a lot on and off doing all kinds of shows at different theaters in Dallas, and then I
went to an arts magnet high school that used to simply be called the Arts Magnet High School
of Dallas, but now it's called Booker T. Washington High School of the Performing Arts, and it
might actually be, sorry, Booker T. Washington High School of the Performing and Visual Arts.
And I was actually there in the high school for that changeover, I think it changed over my
senior year or something like that. So I got to stay in the theater because I was in the in the
theater cluster, as they called it at the time, because they they divided you, I think it was
theater, dance, music, and visual arts, and and I stayed in the theater cluster, but they also
were kind enough and thoughtful enough, I thought, to let me go and do theater outside of the
school. I think that at the time they were sort of like we, we kind of frown on you going out and
doing outdoor stuff outside the school simply because we have so many projects we would like
people to be available for, and but they also knew I was being cast in things, and they were
kind enough to go, you know what? Try to make room for us, but if you can do some shows and
make room for for all of the rest of it, go, go for it. And they, they were, they encouraged it, and
that that was great. And I took a small break. I would take a small break here and there
because I went to college. And of course, the minute you get ready for college, my family didn't
do this so much, but but other people, certain relatives that were distant, and certain friends of
the family, you know, the minute you say, "Well, I'm going to college because I want to be an
actor," they go, "Well, you're going to starve and die." So I decided I would try to back it up
with RTVF or radio, television, video, film, and and that's because that's where my father was.
So I could have something that was the, you know, everybody tells you to go to college and do
your dream, and then make sure you're minoring in your fallback thing. Uh oh.
Ryan Paul 19:55
I looked over at Lauren, and, yes, anyway, go ahead.
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Brian Gonzales 19:58
Oh, there's stories here, okay. Just a look, that's all it takes. No, so I did radio, television, video,
film, and I will be honest. I, I was not as successful in college as as I wanted to be. I ended up
pulling out of, of college when I was at UT Austin, which was a great school, but I was it was a
mix of distraction and arrogance, and I didn't do as well as I wanted to, and learned a lot, got
my butt kicked, and then the second one I went to University of North Texas, which was a great
school as well. But I went for a girl, which is never a good idea, not because of the girl, but
because follow simply going to college to follow a romantic interest, I don't think personally is a
good idea, so that didn't end well. Because she, well, I won't go into that, but
Ryan Paul 20:53
She was not a fan of My Fair Lady.
Brian Gonzales 20:55
There you go, exactly. And but in that time, I got to do all kinds of theater in college, and took a
break when I got back from college to kind of focus on the relationship that I had when I was
out of college, because that relationship lasted a little bit after that, and, and then we broke up,
and so I took about a year or so off, and then I started doing theater again, I did Into the
Woods. Oddly enough, with my mom, we were actually both cast separately. We had no
intention necessarily or idea that we would be doing the show together. And I played the other
Prince, and she played Jack's mom. So that was a great experience. And in that time, I ran into
one of my best childhood friends, who she and I grew up doing theater together. Who was
Ashley, my wife, and we were like, "Hey, you want to go out?" And we did, and then the rest is
history in terms of that. So yeah, so that's kind of how that came about with spinning glasses.
But yeah, that's kind of, I hope that answers that question.
Ryan Paul 21:59
No, it does. So, so when you, what becomes your first like after college professional acting gig
where you realize that the fallback isn't going to be needed at this point?
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Brian Gonzales 22:14
I did a two, I did a one two punch of of a show at a theater in Plano, and Ashley was involved in
one of them. But we did, I did a show called Journey's End, which is a World War One play, and
really beautiful. And I got to play a character named Trotter, who's one of those great walk on,
be memorable, go away for a while, come back, be memorable roles. He was kind of the Bob
Hoskins kind of role of the show, and Bob Hoskins is one of my heroes, so I got to do that. And
then we followed that up immediately with my favorite year, the musical of my favorite year,
and I got to play King Kaiser, who's sort of the the Sid Caesar, Jackie Gleason kind of character
of the show, and I did it with Ashley, and she's sort of the the the foil kind of romantic interest
to that, and that was that was wonderful. So with that kind of happening, and realizing that I
wanted to forge ahead with more theater. I mean, obviously you have to have your survival
jobs, but then we started getting cast at more places like Casa Mañana, which Denton Yockey,
who was the producer there at the time, offered us a season, and then we, we basically had to
say it, because we were in Garland and it was in Fort Worth and it was about an hour drive. We
basically had to say I just don't know that we can afford to do it because we weren't equity at
that point. And he said, "What if I offered you your cards?" And so he gave us our equity cards
and a heck of a contract, and then we realized, oh, okay, we're here to stay, and we could
come, and we were cast in other things at that theater, and then we started getting equity
contracts at other theaters. Now, unfortunately, in this business, it is always harder, especially
in a, in a, a smaller town. Dallas isn't a smaller a small town, but it is a smaller town, say than
like a New York theater community. Women, it's harder for them to get the equity contracts.
Nine times out of 10, they're going to go to the men, which is, I understand their reasoning is
there's less men and more women, but it's still stupid. There's still, there should have been a
way. I don't know what that way would have been, but it's harder. So that became more
difficult for her. So that's why she started getting into other things and directing and teaching
and all those other as well, and sort of became a much more Renaissance person even than I
did. So we,
Ryan Paul 22:15
No pun intended, with Something Rotten?
Brian Gonzales 22:15
Yes.
Ryan Paul 22:15
Renaissance?
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Brian Gonzales 22:15
There you go. I didn't think of that, that's great. Not so there was, what were we talking about?
Oh, so that's kind of where that path went, and but we, we kind of then between the two of us,
we, she finally looked at me one day and just said, you know, this idea that we're waiting for
the right time to go to New York is never, this is, it doesn't make any sense. I understand if we
want to put, we, we want to get, you know, know that by this time we want to have this much
money put away, that's one thing, but this idea of well, when it's the right time, when it's the
right time, doesn't really mean anything. So we finally took account of the money we had and
the possibilities we had, and we just made our way to New York. And Ashley, after something
like 300 auditions in a matter of months, booked the Annie tour, national tour of Annie. She
booked Lily St. Regis, and which was you know quite a feat. And then I worked several jobs,
including attempts at law firms and things like that, and went to an audition for Mamma Mia
because that was back then, at the time when no one had told me don't go to every audition
just to be seen. If you're not right for anything in the show, don't go. But that was something
I'm starting having to teach students. You know, if you if it's an all black cast of The Wiz and
you're white, don't go just to be seen. Don't go, there's nothing for you in the show. You're
wasting people's time. But at that particular audition, Mamma Mia, the casting director said,
"Wait a minute! I don't don't sing for this. I want you to go to this address right now." And so I
went over, and they were doing some callbacks for Spelling Bee and,
Brian Gonzales 22:15
No, you you basically, I think, in the email, just said stuff that that meant something to us, and I
found four songs that really meant something to me, and one song that meant something to
me in the fact that I think it's insane, and I just kind of makes me smile. So that's kind of what I
did.
Ryan Paul 22:49
Okay. Now, and just so you know, I randomly, I mean, I looked through these songs and
listened to them and choose four. So if I chose the one that makes you smile, if I didn't choose
the right one, we'll, we'll, we'll tell people what it is, and they can listen to it.
Brian Gonzales 22:49
That's great. That's great.
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So the first song that I want to play is a song that is just bonkers in my mind, but is really a fun
listen. It's called Chicken Dog.
Ryan Paul 23:06
The Putnam, 25th Annual Putnam County.
Brian Gonzales 23:06
And I did that audition, and then James Lapine walked in and said, "All right, let's see it." And I
did my audition. And then a year later, while I was sitting at one of my temp desks a year later,
I got a call saying, "Hey, they want you to finally come in to Spelling Bee." So that was great.
Ryan Paul 23:06
So was this the original cast or of Spelling Bee?
Brian Gonzales 23:06
Well, by the time I got into it, it was the final year, and they had brought in, they had sort of
quote unquote let go the original cast to bring in possibly shake it up, probably bring in newer
blood and quite possibly cheaper blood. And they brought in the Seattle cast, and they were
there, had established themselves there by the time I got there, and that's where I met James
Monroe , who he and I became best friends, which he's one of my favorite people in the world,
and and we're still good friends. And so the good news there is that by the time I got around to
Aladdin, and he called me up and he went, "Wait a minute, are you doing Aladdin?" I said,
"Yeah, are you?" And he goes, "I'm the genie." I'm like, "Well, that's amazing." So we got to
come back around full circle and do this show together as well. So anyway, that's another story.
Ryan Paul 23:06
But so your first Broadway show is Spelling Bee.
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Brian Gonzales 23:06
Yes, sir.
Ryan Paul 23:06
And then after that, your Broadway, that is your job.
Brian Gonzales 23:06
Yes.
Ryan Paul 23:06
You're not temping anymore.
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Brian Gonzales 23:06
No, I would do odd jobs here and there, and both Ashley and I stayed for the union for equity.
We stayed equity monitors, which we would help run the auditions in New York and get people
through. So that sort of was a side job, and then we would do things here and there, like be
able to teach classes or voiceovers and stuff. But usually the Broadway checks, you know, kept
us afloat, and we were able to have our our lives out there. And she, Ashley, unfortunately,
never quite cracked Broadway. I was very, I always wanted her to. She did end up with a off-
Broadway directing credit, and which is great. But she worked regionally everywhere, and it got
to this weird time where I couldn't get arrested regionally, but then I would book something on
Broadway, so she was always traveling and doing shows and even tours and stuff like that. And
I was comfortably nestled in Broadway, which was great. So I find it interesting that after the
pandemic, the regional stuff started waking up for me. So, but she made a great career out of
that and was very well respected. I was alway, admired her path and was always grateful for
mine. So you know, and then of course the pandemic happened, and and I remember her
specifically looking out the window the day we were about to leave to come to Dallas, you
know, and saying, "I just I have this weird feeling I'm never going to see this apartment again,"
and sure enough, she was right. She and Simon never, never saw that apartment again. I was I
saw it again because I moved us out, but but she got to, we both got back to Dallas, and the
theater woke up, and we got starting to do acting out there, and she started directing and
directing and directing and directing and directing, and she kind of stopped missing performing.
She was, she found a lot of, a lot of reward, and a lot of connection directing, and so she, she
still does that. I think she's starting to be at a point where she goes, she's trying to wake up her
acting bug again, just because at the same time it's sort of like okay, in between directing gigs,
if I get an equity contract, great, you know. So she's, she's there, and, and again, I'm very
fortunate to do things like the Utah Shakespeare Festival, so it's it's been a good it's been a it's
been a heck of a journey.
Ryan Paul 23:59
Very cool. Let's take our first break, and then we'll come back and talk a little bit more about
Broadway before we transition into Cedar.
Brian Gonzales 23:59
Yep.
Ryan Paul 23:59
So, as those of you who've listened to the podcast before know, that instead of doing
commercial breaks, we, we ask our guests to provide a list of songs that for whatever reason
resonate with them, and your your list, Brian, is eclectic, I think. And, and was there a theme
behind it?
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That would be the one.
Ryan Paul 30:50
By John, by the John Spencer Blues explosion. Why did you choose this this particular one?
Brian Gonzales 30:56
Well, I'm actually I'm actually a fan of them. I discovered them a long time ago, and he has this
odd, John Spencer has this has this odd mix of punk and blues that were influenced, and he's
less interested in you necessarily understanding his lyrics as more as just really finding a
groove, and in many cases just noise. But a lot of the, a lot of the groove and a lot of the stuff
he finds, it's, he's, they're a great trio of a band, and they they always man, manage to be, to
lay on some stank and make it really fun and Chicken Dog just amused me, and they got, they
got a guest singer, oh my gosh I can't remember his name at the moment. But just, just
something about the way the song is constructed and then the beat always just made me
laugh, and, and plus, I mean, who writes a song about a chicken dog? It's amazing.
Ryan Paul 31:45
All right, this is Chicken Dog by John Spencer Blues Explosion.
Lauren Bird 31:52
That was Chicken Dog by John Spencer Blues Explosion. You're listening to the APEX Radio Hour
Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
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Ryan Paul 32:01
Thank you, Lauren. Part of the reason I chose that song is I wanted to hear Lauren say "Chicken
Dog." Thanks, Beth. We're back with Brian Gonzalez. He's an actor here this season at the Utah
Shakespeare Festival. He plays Nostradamus in Something Rotten and Ladislav Sipos in See
and She Loves Me, which is running in rep in the Randall Theater with See How They Run,
which also involved in our season is, in the Engelstad we have Twelfth Night, Troilus and
Cressida, and Hamlet, the lesser known Shakespeare play that no one knows. And then in the
Anes Theater we have The Book Club Play and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. So we left off
talking about your first Broadway show, the the spelling bee, the Putnam County Spelling Bee.
Let's talk about what comes next for you in in that series. What's your next kind of big
Broadway contract there?
Brian Gonzales 32:52
Well, it was interesting because I, I got involved with, after that was Shrek. And Shrek was
interesting because I booked Shrek to be the replacement, and I was going to be one of the
three pigs in one of the ensembles, and then I would understudy Shrek, which was great. Then
they announced closing, and I thought, okay, here comes the phone call rescinding the offer,
and they went. Nope, you're part of the cast. Come on out. You'll be here for the closing
months. You will probably never end up going on stage, but we'll throw a few rehearsals your
way just in case you're ready to go on stage. But come be a part of the show.
Ryan Paul 33:32
As Shrek, you'll go on stage as the pigs?
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Brian Gonzales 33:34
I would, I would, if I was needed as almost an understudy, you know, that I would be ready for
the pigs. I don't think they were going to train me as Shrek because there was another Shrek
understudy. It was fine, but they they were kind of, they gave, they tossed me a few rehearsals
as the pigs in the ensemble track. But they were kind of like there's, there's a good chance
you're just never going to go on, that we have other swings and everything. But they welcomed
me to the family and and kept me on board and um, and it was wonderful and and on a
thoroughly tacky note, it was some of the easiest money I ever made because I was basically
just there to hang out at the theater. And in some cases, on some nights, they were like, "Don't
come in tonight. You're fine. Everybody's here. Everybody's healthy. So if you don't want to
make the trip, you're fine." "Okay. Well, does that? What do I need to know about my check?"
They were like, "Doesn't affect your check. You're still," you know. So that was great. So and
then after that, I was told, which apparently was was not reality in the business, that that the
gentleman that was leaving expressed interest in, but wanted to leave the show, but was,
expressed interest in doing the tour, which apparently was a rumor, because after the day after
I had that conversation with my agent, which I went okay, fine. She called back and she went,
"Okay, so that was all a rumor and not true, and they want you for the tour." So then I got to do
the Shrek tour, which was the first things, one of the only things that Disney DreamWorks
Theatricals did was that that tour, and that was a, that was a remarkable experience. And that
was a great family and Ashley ended up coming along and driving the tour with me, and she
ended up becoming one of the child wranglers for that show, and so that was a great
experience. And we had the, well, let's see, how do I how do I drop this bomb without without
getting too too maudlin sad? We had the the arrival of our, of Ashley's first pregnancy and our
son that was to be named Gideon, and then he was stillborn during that time. And that cast
held us up so much that it was it was really magical. And and I kind of, I kind of break up talking
about it, but they were so, they just had us, and it was wonderful. And so I, I, I have probably
the highest affection of an experience for that time, and they were all just great people in
general, and and we we pulled through a lot. It was good, and then when Shrek was over, I
started getting involved with the Aladdin stuff. As a matter of fact, I left, I left the final month of
Shrek to go do Aladdin in Seattle, and the Aladdin experience was fascinating because they
called me and basically saying, "This is one guy we can't cast. We haven't been able to cast
him yet," and so I walked into the audition, and there was several seven foot tall, beautiful
people built like Adonises, and then me. So you had this Danny DeVito person amongst all
these other people, and they were all doing these great things. And so I said, okay, I need to do
something quickly and something different. And I think on, in hindsight, had I thought about it
more, I wouldn't have made the choice. But then again, because I made the choice, I got the
job. But I sort of came up with playing this sort of kind of, not in, what is that word? If it's not in
period, but you do it anyway?
Ryan Paul 36:40
Anachronistic?
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Brian Gonzales 36:42
This sort of anachronistic guy, and kind of made him this, and they loved it. And they said,
"Well, make him a little less mafia and a little more joyful." And I did that, and I finished my
audition, was like, "Okay, well, that's that." And I turned around, and Casey Nicola was sitting
next to me, and he went, "All right, I want you to come to a callback, and I want you to meet
this thing." He actually came out and scared me. Like I turned around, and he was next to me
in the chair, and, and then I booked that. And it was, so I did all of those out of town
productions, and in the middle of that, I did , where I understudied James Corden, and that was
a fascinating experience. And I strangely, not because there's anything wrong with the
American actors, they were great folks, I actually ended up staying closer to the British cast.
That's just, and I'm not sure why, but but I am in contact with a lot of those people more than
some of the American. But every now and then, if I see some of my fellow Americans from that
cast, we're always thrilled to see each other, but the contact I remained with some of those
people. And then after that, Aladdin finally came to fruition, and I originated that role, and and
we were very lucky, the Babkak, Omar, Kassim characters, because we didn't have to recreate
or put a stamp on previously iconic characters, and we were very grateful for that. So we kind
of got to build them from the ground up. And James, who was the genie, got to build up from
from the ground up. But what he had that was fortunate for him is that Menken and Ashman
always envisioned the genie as Cab Calloway, and or that type. And then of course they tried
that. I think they even talked to Cab Calloway. He died, all that kind of stuff. And then when
Robin Williams expressed interest, the rest was history, and it was amazing. So he had to kind
of combine Robin Williams, but also really get to dig into the Cab Calloway, and then of course
what he came up with was just remarkable, and so that was really fun to watch. But we got to
really create characters without the pressure of people knowing who you know these people
were, and that was great. And then after that, I toiled around as best I could, doing some stuff.
We came back to Dallas, and we had Simon, who was our young son, and that was wonderful
because we were actually not supposed to be able to have another child after Gideon. So the
fact that we were able to have Simon is miraculous. And so, and then that happened. In the
middle of that, I got the, I started, during Aladdin I started doing the workshops for Mr.
Saturday Night with Billy Crystal, and then the baby was born. And then we got the call, it's
going to Broadway, and they want you. So I got to do Mr. Saturday Night, which closed earlier
than we wanted. It didn't, it wasn't the ticket seller that I think people were hoping, but it was a
great experience. And I mean, I'm sitting there with Randy Graff, all of these remarkable
people, and Shoshana Bean, and David Pamer, who won an Oscar nomination for the original
film, and they got him to come back. And then, of course, you've got Billy Crystal, who was is
just a wonderful guy and wants you to be funny just as well as he needs to be funny. And it was
a great experience. And that's, you know, and then of course that was after pandemic, and the
only reason that I came back from that as early as I did is because we closed earlier than we
wanted. But there you go.
Ryan Paul 40:06
And then you end up here.
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Yeah.
Ryan Paul 40:08
The, the, the Broadway of the American West.
Brian Gonzales 40:10
Yes, and my,
Ryan Paul 40:12
Regionaltheater.
Brian Gonzales 40:12
And my gosh, it's wonderful out here.
Ryan Paul 40:14
So, so we talked about how that happened with Alan Muraoka, who had known you in in Aladdin
and had was directing Something Rotten and and suggested you submit a tape for for
Nostradamus. Had you seen Something Rotten before?
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Brian Gonzales 40:29
I did during, during Aladdin. You know, Casey made sure that anyone in Aladdin that wanted to
come see the previews and stuff of Something Rotten, made sure we got in. And so I got to see
it then, and I got to actually see a very different show than what originally, than what
eventually happened. They were continually rewriting and rewriting it. The night we saw it, they
apparently had been handed a brand new second act. So those kinds of things. And I think what
we're doing now is a combination of any edits they made from the Broadway production and
maybe the tour, I think, and kind of a combination of that. So this was a new eye-opening
experience. And it's actually, as much as I enjoyed seeing Something Rotten and really enjoyed
it the first time, this is even better because the balance between the Shakespeare jokes and
the musical theater jokes is finally at 50-50, and it works really, really well. So I was excited to
be to be a part of this particular version of it.
Ryan Paul 41:23
And the the version you saw. I mean, isn't Brian d'Arcy James the Nick Bottom in that? And
wasn't he the original Shrek?
Brian Gonzales 41:31
Yeah.
Ryan Paul 41:32
Too? So I mean, I'm just making that connection.
Brian Gonzales 41:35
Yeah, he was great, and Christian Borle, who was insanely funny as Shakespeare, but I've never
seen him not be insanely funny when he wants to be, and Heidi Blickenstaff, and I believe Brad
Oscar was the original,
Ryan Paul 41:55
Nostradamus.
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Brian Gonzales 41:56
Yeah, I was about to say Nosferatu again. Nostradamus, and, and of course was somebody I,
you know, really had to look up to in terms of thinking about this role, so.
Ryan Paul 42:06
So for those that that don't know or haven't seen the show yet, the Bottom Brothers. It's the
1590s, it's the Renaissance. They're a struggling theater group. This is the popularity, William
Shakespeare is the the rock star of the era, and they need, they're desperate to find a, the next
thing, the next big thing to compete with Shakespeare. And so, in his desperation, Nick Bottom
visits a soothsayer, and the soothsayer is is Thomas Nostradamus?
Brian Gonzales 42:40
Thomas Nostradamus, yeah.
Ryan Paul 42:41
Who is a, is a a cousin or a nephew?
Brian Gonzales 42:45
Yeah, nephew.
Ryan Paul 42:46
Nephew of the the Nostradamus. Who, by the way, have you ever seen the film The Man Who
Saw Tomorrow? That film freaked me out as a kid. I know this is a side note, but it's all, it's a
documentary narrated by Orson Welles about Nostradamus.
Brian Gonzales 43:01
Yes.
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Ryan Paul 43:01
And his predictions, it is funky. And when, I remember, I remember watching that as, probably
10 or 12, and thought, "Boy, the world's going to end soon."
Brian Gonzales 43:01
Yes.
Ryan Paul 43:06
That's, that was my first gateway into Nostradamus.
Brian Gonzales 43:13
Yes, I, I haven't seen it in, I think since I was a kid. I need to see it again. Now that you mention
it, now I'm like, "Oh, I got to check that out." But yeah, well, I mean, if, if Orson Welles tells you
the Earth is going to blow up, you probably have to believe him, right?
Ryan Paul 43:25
Yeah.
Brian Gonzales 43:25
That's why wasn't it, wasn't it he the one that like freaked out Americas because they actually
thought aliens were attacking?
Ryan Paul 43:30
Yeah, War of the Worlds.
Brian Gonzales 43:32
Yeah. So yeah, I would. I would.
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Ryan Paul 43:33
So and, and Nostradamus, Thomas Nostradamus has a vision, and that vision is the next big
thing in, in theater is the musical. And that then you proceed to have this, I don't know, five
minute? It's a long. I mean, it's is an incredible song. I think wasn't it called Musical?
Brian Gonzales 43:57
It's a Music, yeah.
Ryan Paul 43:58
It's a Musical. So when you, which is I think one of the iconic songs of the show.
Ryan Paul 44:03
Yes.
Ryan Paul 44:04
Right? And lets you. How much of of you doing that is the? I mean, are you allowed some
freedom to to move and to to vamp a little bit, or is it pretty locked in?
Brian Gonzales 44:19
Yeah, that that song's a little more locked in, and it's, it's, so you know, it's so lovely the way
it's written and the jokes within it and all this kind of stuff. That there's not a lot of vamping I
need to do. The the materials right there. They gave, they kind of give you a gift as a performer
to be able to do that song. I was able, I was given leeway in some other parts of the show here
and there, and I am definitely given leeway to my interpretations of things. And Alli Betsill, who
was our choreographer, who knows how to make you feel like you can dance, even if you can't,
and knows how to make you look like you can dance even if you can't, helped a lot, because I
had told her when when the auditions happened. I said, "Here's the problem: I can't tap." And
she said, "We're going to have people tap behind you, and you maybe do a couple of steps, and
the rest is going to be fine." But no, that's a there, but there, yeah, there are. There's definitely
simply way in terms of the connection between Matt Koenig and I, who, Matt, who plays Nick,
and so there's definitely freedom in the interpretation of the references, but a lot of the, the
leeway I have is more within the dialogue and some of the setup.
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Ryan Paul 45:32
I think it's interesting that, and I want to mention this. So your your resume isn't just musical
theater. Is that, are you a, a double talent, a what do they call that a double threat in the sense
that you do musical and straight theater or or do you have a preference?
Brian Gonzales 45:52
I, I don't really have a preference. I, I would love to do either. My bread and butter though
usually is character men in musical theater. That's, and I'm thrilled with that. I have a ball, but I
do like to do a straight play right now and then when I can. I got to do a series of plays about
Sherlock Holmes where I played Watson, which was a dream role for me, and so it was so so
nice to kind of be in that world and and also not have to learn a song on occasion. You know,
it's a nice break, but yeah, I do. I do like to do as much of all of it as I can. But, but as I said, I, I
more than likely that's why Nostradamus was such a treat and so fun because he is kind of
where I live most of the time. Character guy fun roles and and many, quite often, roles where I
where I'm given leeway to kind of have a few ad libs here and there, and kind of shape it the
way I want. So he was prime real estate in terms of where my career usually goes. So yeah, but
not, if, if, if a straight play comes along, and I mean, sure, I, I while I would be anyone listening,
I'd be happy to come back to the festival, and there's some straight plays next year certainly, I
would love to audition for. I have not had it in near enough professional experience in
Shakespeare to not be terrified to audition for any of the Shakespeare out here, especially the
level of stuff I see out here. It's extraordinary, the Shakespeare out here, and I've seen a lot of
bad Shakespeare. So to see this remarkable Shakespeare was such a an uplift, you know. And
of course, my friend, I'm going to do a plug, shameless plug here. My friend Blake Henri, who
has been interviewed here. If you haven't seen him on stage, go see him on stage. But so that's
been great. This the challenging one has been Sipos in in She Loves Me because he that had to
be a much more grounded, delicate piece. And Sipos is, a lot of what Sipos is, is on the paper. A
lot of what Sipos is, is what you have to bring to him, and so I had trouble finding him because
he, I didn't have to be in, I didn't have the. the, the ease of being in space like I do with
someone like Nostradamus. I had to bring him back down to an emotional reality, and and also
that he is, while not an angry man, but he is easily easily frustrated because he's a, he's a
family man, and it's post war in in Yugoslavia, and, and, and so there's there's a more delicate
touch to him.
Ryan Paul 48:18
Yeah, and I want to talk about Sipos here in a minute, but I want to. You mentioned something
that I think is interesting that we could define a little bit for our listeners, where you talk about
a character part, right? You you say that you've, you've done a lot of, your bread and butter is
these character male character parts. What does that? What's the definition of that?
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Brian Gonzales 48:38
Usually, certainly, he would be opposite the leading man part. So let's say in Music Man, you
have Harold Hill, who is the leading man. Although Harold Hill can be charactery, he is the
leading man of the show and the romantic interest. And then you have someone like Marcellus,
who Buddy Hackett originated, or at least he did in the film, who would be the sidekick, shall
we, shall we say. So, in many cases, the character guy role is either the sidekick or the villain.
Or in Nostradamus's case, like he, I don't know that he's a sidekick, but he is definitely a pivotal
engine to the to the show, while while not necessarily being the male lead or romantic lead.
And so, and quite often, quite often, shall we say, you you don't have to be gorgeous to play
these roles. You can be built and look like me, and and play these roles, and, and, and they're a
lot of fun. And so they're they're quite often really great roles where you get to be memorable,
or in some cases, walk away with your scene and then go have a break, you know, as opposed
to some characters that get to stay that have to stay on stage for the whole the whole time. So
that's what I mean by a character role.
Ryan Paul 49:48
The, just, Lauren, just so you know that my whole life is a character role.
Lauren Bird 49:53
Oh, of course.
Ryan Paul 49:54
I'm a character. That's it, and I'm happy with that. Right? Some people make their whole
livelihood on just being, the, the character person, I'm okay with that.
Brian Gonzales 50:03
Yep, I've been okay with it for a long time.
Ryan Paul 50:06
So in in in Nostradamus's case, in a move, in a musical like Something Rotten, which I would
imagine certain scenes like the musical number depend a lot on audience participation. I guess
what I say when I do work in the grove, I always define actors as audience vampires, right?
And, go back to our Nostrafu comment.
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Brian Gonzales 50:29
Yeah.
Ryan Paul 50:31
That, that feed off the energy of the audience. How important is that to you on stage? What do
you see from that vantage point of the audience as you perform?
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Brian Gonzales 50:41
Yeah, you definitely want a connection with the crowd, and you know, as far as Nostradamus is
concerned, yeah, landing those laughs is the, is the prize for that role. Especially this show in
general though is definitely about the laughs, and Alan went to great trouble to make sure that
we, that we made our our relationships land just as well, so that the comedy had to be
informed by something and the audience would be invested. So sometimes we have to
remember that just because an audience doesn't necessarily laugh as loudly as one that we
had previously, because we would have, we would have, we've had audiences that laughed and
then applauded at a joke, you know, which was great. But then you have another crowd that
goes for the whole show, and you can't go, well, I hate this audience because that's ridiculous.
You have to just go, this audience is what this audience is, because nine times, because that
same audience that went for two and a half hours leapt their feet screaming when we came out
to bow. Like, oh, I was, those are the times that you remember that they were with you. They
were in it. They were, sometimes they were listening more intently, and that affected the way
they laughed. But you can't. We learned a long time ago, like I learned a long time ago that
every audience is going to be different, and you can't you can't lay anything on the audience
other than oh we reached them, oh I can feel them, I can, I can look at them and have an ad lib
and we're having a good time. And it's interesting that, that this show makes fun of
Shakespeare because people forget because they do it here at at at the festival, Shakespeare
wrote a lot of the shows to be to an audience member and to include them and to speak out to
them. Quite often, there's a lot of lines that people forget are like, no, that's right to the
audience, and they expected a response. You know, so it's just interesting that, that that's sort
of there. And I can kind of get that with Nostradamus because he's a fun, he can he can break
those walls on occasion. So, because of that experience, the occasional audience that folds
their arms and goes, "Prove it," or in some cases, just "no, not today." I have learned to sense
what those are, and they're rare, but they're out there. I have yet to encounter that here. I
think everyone, from what I can tell, one of my favorite images here at the festival is we are
very fortunate, and and I will, that's why I will never complain about anything in the Randall to
be in the air conditioning. And, and that's fantastic to the point where sometimes it's just
freezing in there, and it's great for me as Nostradamus because I'm in 14 layers of clothes. I've
got a robe and this vest and all of these things, and the wig and the mustache and all that, and
so the freezing in there is great for me. But this idea that I look out and most of the patrons are
in blankets, and they they're not miserable. They're happy as clams. They're just in their
blankets, laughing and watching the show. And I kind of go, "That's great, you know. They're
they're comfortable. They're, it's almost like they're they're piled in front of the TV watching
something." Although that's obviously a different kind of connection. But, so it's, that's been
great trying to get the feel for different audiences everywhere. I've been in certain cities, which
will remain nameless, that the audiences are tougher, you know, and, and, and while I don't, I
don't ever want to label any city as as an easy audience, but this is a, an involved, and they're
excited to be there. I haven't seen as many crowds that are just excited to, to, to be at the
theater and and supporting this festival as out here in Utah, and it's been wonderful from that
standpoint.
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Ryan Paul 53:46
Great. Let's take our next break, and then we'll, we'll move on to talk about She Loves Me a
little bit. So this is a song that I'd never heard before, and I'm interested to hear what you have
to say about it, and and if I mispronounce this, please correct me. This is Mi Unico Camino by
Conjunto Bernal.
Brian Gonzales 54:49
Conjunto Bernal, yeah.
Ryan Paul 54:50
Conjunto Bernal.
Brian Gonzales 54:51
And well, there was a lot of, I, my grandparents were in San Antonio, and, and I, sometimes
hard to tell just by looking at me, but I'm Latino descent, and so there was always at my,
especially, I mean there was some at my house too, but especially at my grandfather's house,
there was always Tejano and and Latino and mariachi music and all that kind of stuff playing.
And you could find it in about 400 stations in San Antonio, and so this style of music, and
particularly this song, which is one of the classic of that time, was always, was always around,
and it always meant something to me. So then, when I started to see it pop up in movies,
thanks to people like John Sales, I was thrilled to see it, and it would kind of lift up a movie
experience for me. And that song, especially, stayed with me.
Ryan Paul 55:39
Okay, this is Mi Unico Camino by Conjunto Bernal.
Lauren Bird 55:46
That was Mi Unico Camino by Conjunto Bernal. You're listening to the APEX Radio Hour Utah
Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
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Ryan Paul 55:54
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with Brian Gonzales. He's an actor here this season in two of our
Randall shows. He's Nostradamus in Something Rotten, and Ladislav Sipos in She Loves Me.
We're we just got done talking a little bit about Nostradamus and Something Rotten character
parts. Let's talk about She Loves Me. This is a play, I mean, this, we don't do this often where
we have two musicals, and, and now we do in the Randall. And this is a beautiful show. I mean,
many people don't know it as well. I mean, in, in the sense that it wasn't a huge hit in 1963, but
you know, it was a one of the first Broadway shows that was live streamed back in 2016, and
and we're excited to do it here. But it is different than Something Rotten. So you talked a little
bit about Ladislav Sipos and and his part. So She Loves Me is about a perfumery in. in Hungary
and. and the interpersonal relationships between these, these workers and, and characters and
and your role as Ladislav is really grounding. I mean, you seem to be the only kind of normal
person in the show.
Brian Gonzales 57:04
Yeah, he's, he's the, he's the family man of the show, and probably outside of Maraczek, the,
the oldest in the, of the, of the clerks, and so he, he has to spend a lot of time, it's interesting.
It, he, he, I've spent a lot of time, I have about three sequences where I just am, I am the other
person on stage in someone else's song, and I'm just listening. So, what a great way to train to
be in a scene just listening, because there's an art to playing that just as well as there is to
doing the song and telling the story and having an opinion, right? And so I do that a lot in this
show. And so, so, so he's the person that listens to all of their stuff, which is which is really cool.
And then you find out later that he holds a lot of frustration in, but it is he does that on a daily
basis because at this point, the, the thing that he needs to be most aware of for his family is to
keep his job because there was a lot going on after the war at that point, and so a lot of what
he does also is making sure that people don't make a really dumb mistake and lose their job.
He doesn't care about Kodaly so much because Kodaly is the womanizer and kind of the the
fancy, putting on airs, kind of person, and so when it comes down to like, all right, if anybody
needs to go, it needs to be this guy. But even there, he does it covertly because he is trying to
protect the rest of his, of of his flock, shall we say, or, or his family at the perfumery. So that's
been really great to kind of play. Like I said, because Nostradamus is key in making sure that
everything goes as worse as it possibly can, despite the fact that he's trying to help, Sipos
really does succeed in helping and succeed in supporting these people and and getting them to
to kind of get rid of all of the crap they're that they're worried about and get down to the thing
they need to be focusing on. And I, I appreciate that.
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Ryan Paul 59:01
And he's the one that gets it. Like he see, I mean, he's and is, do you think that's because he's
matured? Do you think it's because he's settled down? I mean, why is he the one that that
gets? I mean, he sees the relationship. You know, it's almost like what is that quote from? I
don't know what Shakespeare play it is, but you protest too much or whatever that, that these
two characters, George and Amalia, are protesting enough that he gets it. Why do you think
that is?
Brian Gonzales 59:26
Well, the, the family man thing helps because at some point, you know, you, I would assume,
especially back then, without the millions of distractions that we have now, you were, you really
were able to focus on what was, what was important, which is the family right in front of you
and the friends right in front of you, and also we gave. We weren't quite sure, but Mikey
Perlman, who directed it, between the two of us, we kind of gave Sipos a history that he
probably served, and saw some things. And so he more than any of them was going to be the
one to go to go, this is what is in front of you that is important. This thing that is in front of you
also could be taken away like that, and and that is what you need to focus on. Or the, or get rid
of all of the, the things that are blinding you. Get rid of all the things that you're worried about.
Get rid of things that you're worried about that you don't even know the answer to, and focus
on what's in front of you. And he's the one that goes, "She's right there in front of you." Same
thing with her. "He's right in front of you. What are you doing?" And it's the same thing that,
like, when he listens to Ilona, who I've kind of, between Maggie and I, we kind of made this, you
know, I don't know back then that that the girls could have a gay best friend, right? But he is
the closest thing to it because he listens to Ilona, knows what's going on, so he's kind of
protective in a certain way of Ilona, and gets to, you know, sort of. He kind of steps back a little
from Ilona because she finds her own way, but he gets to sort of be there and watch and be
supportive of that, and so I think because of giving him the military background and seeing
things in the war, plus being the family man and the knowledge that comes with age, kind of
gave him a much more pragmatic look at things.
Ryan Paul 1:01:17
It's interesting. I, as I've seen the show, the, the idea is, is that Sipos isn't necessarily good at
his job, but he's mediocre enough to be indispensable. And there's, I think there's even a song
like, the, the thing I like about She Loves Me is that, and I tell people this in the grove that
everybody has a song, right? I mean, this is, this is a musical where you know there, there are
musicals where there's ensemble numbers and everything else, but everybody has a song in
this show.
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Brian Gonzales 1:01:50
They do.
Ryan Paul 1:01:50
Righ? And and Sipos's song is really interesting. Will you talk about his specific song?
Brian Gonzales 1:01:57
Yeah, it was it was it it's one of those songs that I think certain people, because okay there's so
many beautiful songs in the show and so many moving songs and there's just so much melody
in the show and Sipos's song melody is sneaks up on you a little bit more. It's not apparent, it's
not immediately apparent until you realize that you've been hearing it in motifs throughout the
show, and it is a song that often gets dismissed. As a matter of fact, Brad, our musical director,
was telling me that he was one of those people that that kind of dismissed the song because,
oh, it's a powder song, it's a character guy song, and he's talking about this thing, and then it's
over because it's, it's quick. And then he said it actually became one of his favorite songs once
you realized that it was about him saying, you know, it's, it's all just dust, you know, because he
goes back to in this entire universe we're dots and specks. What does it matter? It doesn't
matter. And, and it's a pretty, it's a heavier song than I think people think it is, right? And I'm
not, I'm not trying to make it the Second Coming or anything, but it is a, there's more to it, but
because it is old.
Ryan Paul 1:03:07
To be fair, you are the bongo player for the Lord's Angel.
Brian Gonzales 1:03:11
That's true.
Ryan Paul 1:03:13
You are the herald of the Second Coming.
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Brian Gonzales 1:03:15
That's true. That's true. I've, I've, I've missed the signs, but um, but yeah, the, the so there is
more to the song, and in its sort of light pattern and sort of comic way, underneath it, and then
it's kind of what Mikey was saying about the whole show is that that it is this sort of delicate
chocolate box, this show. And he wanted to inform it with coming out of the war and the things
that where people were coming out of it, and so he said it was a dark chocolate box, and so
that song is is the perfect example of sort of this dark chocolate where underneath this lovely
moment of chocolate you go oh oh there's okay there's some salt here you know and that's
what I love about that song. It's just it's, it's got a little, it's got a little more heft to it than you
at first think.
Ryan Paul 1:04:04
Yeah, and I think that for me, Sipos is the character that grounds that play. I mean, he is the
most realistic person up there, and maybe it's because I'm the character actor in my own life,
right? That that is the person that I resonate with because that's sometimes how I think of, of
my job in some ways, you know. I mean, I, I love teaching history and everything else, but but
sometimes I just, it's you know why do you do what you do, and some of us are very lucky to do
what we do because we love it and also get paid for it.
Brian Gonzales 1:04:36
Yeah.
Ryan Paul 1:04:36
But sometimes you do it just to get paid for it. Does that make sense?
Brian Gonzales 1:04:40
Yeah.
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Ryan Paul 1:04:40
And, and I think Sipos sums that up brilliantly. There's also another scene that I, I love in the
show where, so George and Amalia are members of this Lonely Hearts Club, before Sergeant
Pepper takes it over and makes it into a band, and then and and they don't know that they're
writing to each other. I think Sipos may figure, or at least know they like each other. And then
they finally set up a meeting, and there's a traumatic incident at work before that. But George
is going to go and see the the dear friend, and he says to Sipos, "I want you to come scout for
me." And there's this beautiful scene where Sipos sees who it is, but doesn't tell George.
Brian Gonzales 1:05:26
Right.
Ryan Paul 1:05:26
Can you tell me about what you're think, what, what you think Sipos is doing in that scene?
Why doesn't he say this is it? He just essentially says you're going to want to do this.
Brian Gonzales 1:05:37
I think. Well, one, every now and then, I think Sipos decides, "Oh heck, I'm going to have some
fun with this," because there is, you know, the, what came about with that scene is sort of this
idea of the initial shock, and then, oh, this is great, you know, and, and also on the times that
he allows himself to do something for sheer devilish amusement, he he runs with it because he
doesn't probably get that often because he's trying to make sure he's preserving his wife and
his job, or his family and his job, and so that was really really good. But Mikey and I were
talking about it, and he he sort of loved the idea that Sipos was going to be there to kind of let
that happen organically on its own, especially since the fact that they technically can't stand
each other. These two characters, George and and Amalia, so he, he loved the idea that he was
actually pretty good at just sort of, if not devil's advocate, but just sort of molding the direction
that it was going to go, and, and was going to be there to sort of be supportive, but be there to
let them figure it out. Because I think he also knows that if he would have just said, "It's Amalia,
and your friend is Amalia, and this is going to be great," that it would have never happened.
That George would have run from that restaurant and never gone back. And that it certainly,
had he told Amalia, Amalia would have been like, "Well, then, to heck with this guy." So he
knew he knows enough to go, they have to figure this out, but I'll be there for them when when
when the time comes.
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Ryan Paul 1:07:21
And then George goes and horribly does a horrible, horrible thing.
Brian Gonzales 1:07:26
And it's, and it's interesting too because Ashley pointed this out when she saw it. She said,
Amalia is not faultless in this. Amalia's difficult, and, and, and she's, she's a great character.
She's, and and she's admirable in so many ways. But also, like, no, you're, you're difficult. And
so between the two of them being bullheaded about so, many turns out the wrong things. They
have to kind of get over themselves. And and she's, she's ready to just slice him simply
because he showed up, you know. So there's some things, and then of course, as you said, he
just blows it, and they both kind of let the venom sneak out in that one scene, which I think is
actually a really brave thing on the part of the writers to let to to let these incredibly flawed
people, who also are lovable, be the center of this thing. They're not romanticized characters at
all. As a matter of fact, it actually speaks out against overly romanticizing things. So that's
really cool.
Ryan Paul 1:08:13
Yeah, it is. So let's let's take our our final break, and this is a song which I, I'm interested to
hear what you say, but it's called Move On, and it is from Sunday in the Park with George. This
is the version with Mandy Patinkin and Bernadette Peters, who I believe were the originators of
the roles.
Brian Gonzales 1:08:50
Well, that's my favorite Sondheim show in general. But, and that was one of the things Ashley
and I bonded over as friends. But years ago, I mean, before we were married, Ashley and I got
to do that show together as George and Dot, and I was the shortest, roundest George Seurat
that ever lived, and she was the tallest Dot I think that ever lived. But we got to do that show
together, and it was wonderful because you basically break up every night, and then you go
home and make up, and it's wonderful. And Move On was one of our favorite moments. It was
one of our favorite songs, and it became kind of a calling card song for Ashley and I. So, quite
often at, I think once we even did it at a memorial service, but at concerts and charity events
and theater galas and all this kind of stuff, and sometimes just on our own at a cabaret or
something like that, we are, that's a song we do together all the time. And so, between the
what that show means to me, and that experience with her means to me, and the fact that we
still connect, and according to friends and family, are still very effective doing that song and
communicating it, that's just very dear to my heart.
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Brian Gonzales 1:10:02
Yep.
Ryan Paul 1:10:02
Why did you choose this song?
Ryan Paul 1:10:03
Okay, this is "Move On from Sunday in the Park with George, featuring Mandy Patinkin and
Bernadette Peters.
Lauren Bird 1:10:13
That was Move On from Sunday in the Park with George. You're listening to the APEX Radio
Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
Ryan Paul 1:10:21
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with Brian Gonzales. He's an actor for us for the Shakespeare
Festival this season in Something Rotten and in She Loves Me. And I'm gonna do something
that I've rarely, rarely done. And we're gonna do, because you gave us a song that meant
something to you, we're gonna do one more segment before bringing us joy. So you are gonna
get five songs instead of four.
Brian Gonzales 1:10:43
Wow!
Ryan Paul 1:10:44
Because. It's, a, musical. Anyway, so patent, you know, copyright. Sorry. So I guess I didn't sing
it long enough to have it to be licensed, right?
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Brian Gonzales 1:10:56
Yes.
Lauren Bird 1:10:56
You're probably okay.
Brian Gonzales 1:10:57
Isn't it that 19 second rule or something like that? Yeah.
Ryan Paul 1:11:00
So it may shock you, Lauren, but I am not Brian's understudy.
Lauren Bird 1:11:04
What?
Ryan Paul 1:11:04
For Nostra,I know.
Brian Gonzales 1:11:06
I could call Alan though.
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Ryan Paul 1:11:07
I keep, I keep. Well, that's true. We are tight now. So I want to talk about, we're recording this
in the morning, and I know today you have a show, She Loves Me, because I'm scheduled to do
the orientation for it, so that's why I know. If I'm not doing the orientation, I don't know what
shows are on. But I do know that She Loves Me and Book Club Play are the matinees today. So
the let's talk about the process. Okay, so you, you, you get, the shows are open, directors are
gone. You're in the the routine. Let's talk about a show, maybe Nostradamus, or maybe
Something Rotten, because there's probably a little more costuming involved. So, and also
that's a show where your character doesn't come on until the play is already underway.
Brian Gonzales 1:11:57
Yeah.
Ryan Paul 1:11:57
So let's talk about that show. Tell me about the process. The, I know you get up. What would
your call time normally be for the show?
Brian Gonzales 1:12:08
It's, we have a half hour call time, and you got, you have actors in the cast that are there an
hour and a half before showtime because they want that space. And I'm perfectly fine with the
half hour call time, that does fine for me. Sometimes I'm there at like, say, you know, 40
minutes to curtain something like that.
Ryan Paul 1:12:26
So your call, even though your character isn't in the show until 20 or 30 minutes in, you still
have to be there a half hour before the show starts.
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Brian Gonzales 1:12:33
Yes, but that actually is okay because I get there, I sign in, I visit a little with the with the, you
know, with my guys in the dressing room, whatever, and, and then I have to start the process
of getting the first layer on, the pants and the undershirt and all this kind of stuff. Then I have
to put the mic on, make sure that's taped. Then we go check the mic with the sound people,
and so we have to make sure that's put on right. They may have to make corrections to how
we've taped it or where it's facing and all this kind of stuff. Then I come back and I have to,
because of the way the layered process works, I have to get the shirt, the vest, and then all of
the necklaces on, because he has a ton of necklaces and like elk horns and stuff that he's, not
elk horns or like something, tooth things that he wears on on him, and then like a beaded
necklace and all this stuff. So I get that on, and then, just for just for safety's sake, so I don't
forget, I get all my bracelets on.
Ryan Paul 1:13:22
And then can you put the facial stuff on yet?
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Brian Gonzales 1:13:28
No, that's the thing. Then Jillian comes in and puts on my beard and mustache, then goes
across the dressing room to put on stuff for one of the other actors, then comes back over and
puts my wig on, and so by that point they may have gone to places and starting the opening
number while she's finishing up, while Jillian is finishing up my wig, and then I have to put the
rest of the layers on. And then Mia, my dresser, comes and has to basically tie me and snap me
into this long duster that I wear because it kind of hangs back. I kept tripping on it, it kept
getting underfoot, and, and one night it's a musical was an absolute mess because I couldn't
not almost fall every time. So they developed this series of snaps and hooks that brings it up
over my shoulders, and then there's two ribbons that come underneath my arms that they tie
behind me so that the the coat stays up enough that I can move well. Then they also cut some
of the the bottom off of it because my legs are two inches long, so that's kind of that whole
process. So I am basically ready to go finally by about the 10 minute mark into the show,
maybe even five minutes away from when I enter, because it's a long process. Then you add
the fact that because I sweat so much, because I'm under so many layers, they now have to
replace my mic element every single show, which means I finish It's a Musical, go to the boo,
booth, get it flicked off, and get, get the water out of it. Then I go downstairs and strip off most
of those layers, so that they can come back towards the end of the act. Switch out the the
element. Then I have to put all the layers back on, and then go right back on stage for that.
Fortunately, in Act Two, he's more of a glorified cameo in the, in the second act, so I have,
that's the part of it that becomes princess track, and I have more time to just kind of relax. And
then Tristan, who was in charge of all of the sound, was kind enough one day while out
shopping for supplies to buy me a little personal fan that I can keep everywhere my dresser
and my dresser can keep, and kind of keep my, my head especially, cooler and less sweaty.
That kind of helps them not have to battle my sweat so much for the mic. So that whole
process happens, and then of course at the end of the show, I'm always the last one out
because there's, we got to get the wig off, we got to get the beard off, I got to get all the parts
put back together and put back in their bags and in their places and layer by layer by layer by
layer by layer. So that all said, worth it.
Ryan Paul 1:16:08
Yeah.
Brian Gonzales 1:16:08
That, that all, that costume and all that stuff is half my performance. I mean, I'm I she she
showed me the, the, they showed me the drawings and for it and, and he's sort of this odd
combination of Gandalf and Tommy Chong, and I thought it was amazing. And although he was
a little more hippie looking, I had a headband and all this kind of stuff. And Alan wanted him to
be a little less Tommy Chong, but they're still there. So I love it. It's, it's all worth it as far as I'm
concerned. And now that I have a fan, it's not, I'm not as hot.
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Ryan Paul 1:16:45
So that costume informs like when when you develop that character, because I've seen
Nostradamus where he doesn't have a beard at all. He was bald.
Brian Gonzales 1:16:53
Yeah.
Ryan Paul 1:16:53
But that when you saw that rendering of the costume, did that help inform of what you were
gonna do?
Brian Gonzales 1:17:01
Yes, strangely enough, because of the the wildness of it all, and sort of the the duster and and
the fact that I saw a little bit of Gandalf in it, and also the, the all of the hair and beard and all
this kind of stuff, he seemed Shakespearean to me, which I thought was kind of cool in a show
like this, and so it actually shifted my attention away from kind of, because he he is usually in
general, kind of anachronistic in that world because he's he's he usually kind of played with a
more modern spin. And it works. I'm not, that's not an against that. I think that's fantastic.
Matter of fact, Brad Oscar, who was one of my heroes, is one of my heroes on stage. But it kind
of led me in this costume and sort of the way Matt's take on Nick is to kind of actually make
him a little less modern, unless he was doing a modern reference. So he, I was, for, for better or
worse way to describe it. What started to come out of him more between the costume and the
presence of people on stage was taking him more the Ian McKellen, almost Shakespearean
actor route, because he's also he also does put on airs to be impressive as this seer, and that's
just kind of what more realistically came out of him. And, and I was having so much fun with it.
And Alan said, "Yeah, run with it." So that's kind of where that part of what informed that was
that costume.
Ryan Paul 1:18:11
It is kind of a Prospero, that costume.
Brian Gonzales 1:18:34
Yes.
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Ryan Paul 1:18:34
I I think it's interesting that, so when you when you talk about putting the the dress, your
dresser, really you're putting all the other clothes on and the accoutrement the dresser is just
hooking on your cloak or your duster.
Brian Gonzales 1:18:50
Yes, the the dresser also helps me. Her name is Mia. She helps me get ready for, I have a
cameo as a as an iconic musical theater character in one of the, which I will not give away, in
one of the big numbers down the line and she definitely helps me get in and out of that but
yeah, but that cloak is enough but, but she's also there to just kind of make sure, you know,
that that my wig's not getting stuck, that the beard isn't caught, that, she makes sure that,
because also, like my vest is tied on. There's no buttons on the vest. It's it's string, string,
string, string, string on the side and everything like that. So she has to make sure that's done.
Otherwise, I'm dragging strings everywhere. So she actually, more than usual for a dresser,
actually has to keep me safe because between a lot of the things that can hang off of that
costume, and also the fact that that that duster was going to be a problem for a while, she's
the one that sort of makes sure that I'm put together in a way that I can actually perform
without having to worry about whether I'm going to fall over, so.
Ryan Paul 1:19:37
Very cool. All right, let's take our next break. This is a song called All That You Have Is Your
Soul. By Tracy Chapman. So, can you tell me why you told why you chose this song?
Brian Gonzales 1:20:04
Well, I'm a huge Tracy Chapman fan from way back, and this song, especially, just always
meant something to me because I, I think the message is is fairly universal, and in some cases
we really need to be listening to today because, you know, and, and considering this show that
I'm doing, "to thine own self be true," which is a message that comes along, and you have to be
true to yourself and true to your soul. And this song quite often is at the end of the day that you
know, getting rid of everything else. That's really all you have at the end of the day, and that's
what that song means to me.
Ryan Paul 1:20:38
Okay, this is All That You Have Is Your Soul by Tracy Chapman.
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Ryan Paul 00:12
Thank you, Lauren. We're here in our final segment with Brian Gonzales. He's an actor here in
the Randall shows. He's Nostradamus in Something Rotten and Ladislav Sipos in She Loves Me.
And Lauren developed a pretty important dossier on every guest, and I should also say, Brian is
also a skilled fire eater and puppeteer.
Brian Gonzales 00:35
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did a lot of, I did a lot of work at the Dallas Puppet Theater for a long time,
so I had to get good at at puppetry, which was very funny when I went to audition for Avenue
Q, because they didn't really care about your puppetry experience because they wanted, they
wanted to train you in their own way. So I thought that was funny, but no,
Ryan Paul 00:51
I wanted fire eaters.
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Brian Gonzales 00:53
Well, the fire eaters happened when I did Forever Plaid, and at some point in that show, I was
the bass character, and I don't remember his name. But he eats, there's a whole thing where
they do all of these like tricks and stuff, and he full on swallows fire. And I had to learn to do
that. It took me a while to get good at it, but yeah. And so I sort of jokingly put it on my resume
now because I have that reaction, that exactly like, can we talk about the fire eating? And so,
yeah, I do that. And you know, if someone were to ask me to try it again, I'll give it a shot. Why
not?
Ryan Paul 01:26
Except with that big long Nostradamus beard.
Brian Gonzales 01:27
I would rather be clean shaven and do it, yes, that's for sure. Yes.
Ryan Paul 01:31
All right. For those of you who haven't listened to us before, those of you have, the last and
final segment is a segment that we always do with everyone in the studio about what's bringing
us joy? So we'll start with you. Brian Gonzales, what are you currently watching, reading,
listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
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Brian Gonzales 01:48
Well, I'll start with reading. Right now, I'm reading two books. One is is the original book. I think
based on the website that started the term "jumping the shark," so I'm reading the original
jump the shark book, which talks about, basically when several things in pop culture took the
turn that finally did them in. You know, for example, the the whole Bobby Ewing being, death
being, that whole a whole season of Dallas being a dream, that kind of thing. That's when the
show jumped the shark. So I'm reading that, and then I'm reading a biography of H.G. Wells
that my son bought for me, which is, I've always been fascinated by his stuff and and his life,
and so that's been great. Music. Ever since choosing that song, I'm, I'm back on a John Spencer
Blues Explosion kick, and who is the other one? Perez Prado, who was one of the classic mambo
kings, and Mungo Santa Maria, who was a percussionist and jazz musician, have been into a lot
of those. And there was one other one. Oh, Bryan Ferry, who was the lead singer of Roxy Music
and was part of the glam rock, one of the glam rock pioneers. Although he's not as revered as
as David Bowie, he's kind of considered sort of a, of a, of a happy hidden treasure. So I've been
into that a lot lately for music, and then of course because of my son, I am, I am always have
access to a rather large exposure to Elvis because my son is obsessed with Elvis, so there's
always that. And then watching. I'm not really much of a game player. Not because I have
anything against it. It never really occurs to me. I spend, we have a Wii that we bought during
the Shrek tour that that Simon loves and and Ashley loves. On occasion, we all play that, and
then on my phone I have a Marvel puzzle quest game that simply, I simply still play because
I've just invested too much time into it to to get rid of it. So I still play that. I'm a cinephile, so
I'm always watching all kinds of weird things. I just finished watching all 10 Conjuring movies,
which may have been a mistake, but I, because it got repetitive, but I enjoyed them. I am now
on an Airport kick. Remember those? Airport 75, Airport 77, all this kind of stuff. And those
have been fun. And then series wise, I've been watching, well, I dug out old seasons of Bosom
Buddies, which of course would never be made today, but it's so remarkable to watch that Tom
Hanks and Peter Scalari were such remarkable performers at that time and their bond. That's
been good, and I've been watching a show called One Step Beyond, which is, kind of came
before Twilight Zone and Outer Limits, and were stories of the supernatural that were actually
based on real cases and little half-hour segments, and then another one called Colonel
Something of Scotland Yard, and it was basically Boris Karloff's only detective show, where he,
and he has this eye patch, and he, he is the, what do they call it? He is the Department of
Queer Events or something like that. But back then, that meant he was like the X Files of his
time. And those have been fun to watch. So there's been a lot of that, and then every now and
then I'll, I'll throw on a documentary to try to know a little more than I know. So that's kind of
what I,
Ryan Paul 05:11
The Man Who Saw Tomorrow.
Brian Gonzales 05:12
Yeah,
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Ryan Paul 05:12
that's on your.
Brian Gonzales 05:13
I think that's going to be on my list. Okay, I have to ask you then, since you've seen some of
these things, did you see F for Fake?
Ryan Paul 05:18
I did not.
Brian Gonzales 05:19
That's, that's Orson Welles's own documentary, into the world of sleight of hand illusion and
magic.
Ryan Paul 05:24
I have to look that up.
Brian Gonzales 05:24
And it's really quite extraordinary.
Ryan Paul 05:26
F for fake. I'm interested in One Step Beyond too.
Brian Gonzales 05:28
Yeah.
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Ryan Paul 05:28
it speaks to your son Simon's brilliance about Elvis. My, my whole career as a historian didn't
begin with Elvis, but he certainly set the direction. My, my graduate work was all on the
development of rock and roll in the mid south. So I went to Ole Miss, so I, I studied, wrote on
Elvis and Johnny Cash and Carl Perkins, and that was all my work.
Brian Gonzales 05:49
Oh my gosh!
Ryan Paul 05:50
Was the the development of Elvis as a, I teach history of rock and roll here. But anyway, I'm a
huge, anyone who knows me knows I'm a huge Elvis fan.
Brian Gonzales 05:58
I'm I may have to add one more thing to that list because I have to. I'm going to do a
shameless brag. My son Simon is a, is sort of, is going to be sort, sort of become a stop motion
filmmaker. He discovered making stop motion on the pandemic because we wanted something
else to do than sit and be depressed, right, or be scared. So we started making stop motion
movies together. He now has his own channel where he does gojis, which is another word for
Godzilla, has all these Godzilla action figures. So he has created this world of characters that
that we started playing. That he now has this universe of all of these different Godzilla
characters, and they're named Harold and George and Joe and all of these kind of stuff, and
they all live in this place together. And he does all these comic vignettes in stop motion of
these Godzilla. So that is another thing that I'm watching that brings me joy. I'm really proud of
his humor and his skill as as it develops as a stop motion filmmaker.
Ryan Paul 06:45
And what is his YouTube channel?
Brian Gonzales 06:48
It's called Goji Animated Studios. I wasn't sure if I was allowed to say so.
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Ryan Paul 06:52
Sure.
Brian Gonzales 06:54
And it's good. They're they're just short vignettes that kind of show off his sense of humor and
the things that he loves. And he's got a real quirky sense of humor. I'm proud of him.
Ryan Paul 07:01
Very cool. Yeah, very cool. Thank you. Lauren Bird. What are you currently watching, reading,
listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
Lauren Bird 07:08
So I've recently returned to a podcast called Intentionally Blank. Just it's called Intentionally
Blank, just so they can talk about anything. And Ryan will not be surprised about this at all, but
it's hosted by Brandon Sanderson and another author, and it's just it's just fun to hear their
thoughts, because they do like episodes on movies and just like tons of random topics, and I
just thoroughly enjoy. It's always interesting because you never know what you're going to get.
Speaker 1 07:35
See, I'm going to write that down. I want to hear that, Intentionally Blank.
Ryan Paul 07:39
You're kind of Brian Sanderson, Brandon Sanderson looking.
Brian Gonzales 07:42
Oh?
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Ryan Paul 07:43
Don't you think?
Lauren Bird 07:44
Yeah, yeah.
Ryan Paul 07:45
I mean, yeah. You ever seen Brandon Sanderson? Yeah, you should look him up. Okay. You kind
of have some similar characteristics.
Brian Gonzales 07:48
Okay.
Ryan Paul 07:48
You kind of have some similar characteristics.
Brian Gonzales 07:51
Okay, I'll take that.
Ryan Paul 07:52
I don't know how your writing is, but I've never read Brandon Sanderson, but Lauren
Lauren Bird 07:55
He writes good books.
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Brian Gonzales 07:56
Okay,
Ryan Paul 07:56
Is a huge fan.
Brian Gonzales 07:57
Okay, I want to check out that too. I need some good stuff to follow up the books I'm reading.
Ryan Paul 08:02
Oh, so what should be his first? This is an, this is an interesting question. Brian, his first entry
into Brandon ,Brian, Brandon Sanderson. What should he read first?
Lauren Bird 08:11
Ooh, okay, I have two. So Mistborn, the way that he describes it is Ocean's Eight, I mean
Ocean's 11 meets My Fair Lady in a World where the villain won,
Lauren Bird 08:22
oh, I'm in
Lauren Bird 08:22
It's really good.
Brian Gonzales 08:23
I'm in, yeah. And then,
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Ryan Paul 08:24
It's a trilogy.
Lauren Bird 08:25
Yes.
Ryan Paul 08:26
Mistborn is a trilogy.
Lauren Bird 08:27
Yeah, it starts as a trilogy, and then also Tress of the Emerald Sea. It's kind of inspired by the
Princess Bride. It's also really good.
Brian Gonzales 08:36
I think I've seen that title out there, okay.
Lauren Bird 08:38
It's delightful.
Brian Gonzales 08:39
Will you please clarify the title of the first one?
Lauren Bird 08:41
Mistborn.
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Brian Gonzales 08:43
Born, good. Okay, I was like Mist porn. Wow.
Ryan Paul 08:47
Yeah.
Brian Gonzales 08:48
What are we talking about now? I understand. Okay, we're good.
Ryan Paul 08:51
Is it, Mistborn being developed as a TV show, right?
Lauren Bird 08:54
As a movie, as movies, and then Stormlight is being developed as a TV show. And I'm very
excited.
Ryan Paul 08:59
So yeah, the Mistborn. The first is, the first book called Mistborn.
Lauren Bird 09:03
Depending on the edition, it's either Mistborn or Mistborn: The Final Empire.
Brian Gonzales 09:07
Okay.
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Lauren Bird 09:07
Either one, but.
Brian Gonzales 09:08
Actually both books sound fascinating to me. So, but I think I might start with that Mistborn.
That sounds really cool. I love that. The
Ryan Paul 09:13
The second one is is a one shot, right? The the Emerald Sea one.
Lauren Bird 09:17
Yes. Yep. That one's a standalone.
Brian Gonzales 09:19
So, okay, I'm a fan of like Dresden Files. So would you say because of that, I might be, that
would be right up my alley?
Lauren Bird 09:28
Probably, yeah. I'm not super, I haven't read Dresden Files, but that's urban fantasy, and this is
epic fantasy. So like similar vibes.
Brian Gonzales 09:36
I'm willing to, I'm, I'll make that leap. Let's do it.
Lauren Bird 09:37
Yeah.
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Brian Gonzales 09:37
Okay.
Lauren Bird 09:38
That's great. Yeah. What about you, Ryan? What are you currently watching, reading, listening
to, or playing that's bringing you joy?
Ryan Paul 09:44
I just started the Apple TV miniseries Star City, which is a spinoff of one of my favorite shows,
For All Mankind, which I think jumped the shark in season three. They're in season five now,
but, but this alternative history of the moon landing, where the Russians get there first. That's, I
think, one of the greatest scenes of all television is the very first scene of the episode, episode
one of For All Mankind, where it's July 20, yesterday, 1969, and they're looking at the traditional
moon landing shot on TV, and the camera pans up, and you think it's Neil Armstrong, but it's a
Russian flag. So the whole basis of For All Mankind is the Russians got to the moon first, and all
America did. So For All Mankind, this is their, I think their fifth season. But just recently, this last
spring, they did a production called Star City, which is the Russian point of view. So it's all
about the Russians and the, the paranoia and the secret police and all that stuff going on, and
it is twisty and turny, and all the good things about television and communist Russia.
Brian Gonzales 10:07
That sounds fantastic.
Ryan Paul 10:07
So Star City, and you don't have to have seen For All Mankind. Although watching seasons one
and two are really solid, but you don't, it's not connected in that sense, it doesn't have like
same actors or anything like that. Yeah. So Star City on Apple TV is what's bringing me joy.
Lauren Bird 11:07
Cool, cool.
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Brian Gonzales 11:08
Can I ask you a question as a historian?
Ryan Paul 11:10
Sure.
Brian Gonzales 11:11
This been and and if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to. You you know the whole,
we're talking about the Mandela effect more and more these days, right? Is there a historical
fact or historical event that you think has been overly placed in the Mandela effect that you feel
needs to be corrected?
Ryan Paul 11:32
So, before we do that, why don't you define for listeners what the Mandela effect is?
Brian Gonzales 11:36
The Mandela effect is when you you remember or believe something to be a certain way when
in actuality, it is not. It is not that thing. It is a, it is something, a trick that your brain plays on
you. I believe they talk about certain certain things like people, I don't remember which way it
was, but people think that the Flintstones is spelled a certain way and that their name isn't
Flintstones; it's they say F L I N S T O N E Flinstones, and it's that kind of thing. You remember it
just slightly off from what the reality is, and I think apparently that also happens with certain
historical events. So?
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Ryan Paul 12:13
Yeah, so I don't think I, I don't think that. Yes, I do think there are things that need to be
corrected, and, and what I think is, is that our past is more nuanced than it is, and what we find
is that, so historians will say to have a a reliable memory you have to be at least 10 years old.
So any anything that's before you were 10 isn't really accountable, and, and what they'll say is
things like the the September 11, right? That, that most people say I saw the twin towers fall,
but what they really saw was the twin towers fall on television later, right? They were watching
it live, or when the Challenger blew up, people say I remember that. Most recently, it's like the
moon landing. I'll have students write, interview someone who saw the moon landing, and
they'll tell me these stories of when they saw it. But you can tell that they're remembering it
differently because you know they walked on the moon at you know 8:50, 7p.m. Mountain
Time, and these people are saying, "I remember, you know, getting home from school and
watching it happen." So I think that that's not a negative thing. I think for me, one of the things
that I like to think about and tell people about Mandela effects and, and, and things like that is I
go back to the founding of the country to the Puritans, right? How the Puritans came for
religious freedom, which isn't really true, right? Because they came, they left England to the
Netherlands, where they had complete religious freedom, and then, and then they wanted to
found out that their kids were being, you know, indoctrinated or whatever by the liberal Dutch. I
mean, in the Netherlands, you can do whatever you want, and not that they were indoctrinated,
but it's like, yeah, I don't care, believe whatever you want to believe, that's fine. And they
found that, well, we can't let our kids do whatever they want, and so they take them
somewhere where they can lock them down, which is the new world, right? And then when they
get here, they don't go to, they're going to Virginia and end up lost in Massachusetts, and have
religious freedom just for them, right? If you were a Quaker or any other religion, you were
killed or put in the stocks, or couldn't vote. So I think those are the things I like to think about,
right? That, that, that the founding stories can be stories. I mean, we think about George
Washington praying at Valley Forge, or all that. I mean, these things that that we have seen
and said mean so much to me just didn't really happen or happen in that way, right? And what
do you do with that, right? And how do you figure that out? And so I think that, that those are
the things that I, I think about a lot, and I'm still learning too.
Brian Gonzales 14:52
It's it's interesting that, that, that, that point of view is very interesting to me because a lot of
the times I, I get stuck on an idea of what are you mad about? Are you mad about what you've
been told to be mad about, or are you mad about an actual fact? So a lot of the times, a bill will
come out that I'll go, okay, I'm mad about this too, but I read the thing, and what I'm mad
about is this. You're mad about something someone told you. Have you read the bill? You
know? And I might, we might be in agreements on on why maybe the bill is good or bad, but
make sure you're mad about something factual. And I get in trouble for that sometimes.
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Ryan Paul 15:15
No, I think it's, it's a hard time to be to to teach history and to think about those things because
we everything has been politicized, yeah, and that, really what it comes, I mean, are you really
upset about this, or, or I'm a believer that well written history is as exciting as fiction, and, and
can be done, and, and it's it's beautiful. And we just don't, what we don't talk about is the fact
that, that we think A happens, then B happens. Elvis walks into the recording studio, and then
all of a sudden he's Elvis Presley.
Brian Gonzales 15:35
Yeah.
Ryan Paul 15:35
But in reality, as you know, it goes A one, A two, A three, A four, A five, A six, and then B. But
we don't teach it that way because we can't.
Brian Gonzales 15:35
No.
Ryan Paul 15:45
Right. In, in those things, and so I think it's important to recognize that, that the dash in the
middle is more important than the A and the B. How we get to B is more important than B itself,
sometimes.
Brian Gonzales 16:27
I may have to steal that phraseology. I like that.
Ryan Paul 16:29
You can take all you want. So thank you for being here.
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Brian Gonzales 16:32
Of course, my pleasure.
Ryan Paul 16:33
Brian, we appreciate it. Brian Gonzales is an actor here. He's Nostradamus in Something Rotten
and Ladislav Sipos in She Loves Me. That's running in rep with See How They Run in the Randall
Theater. The Engelstad Theater is having Twelfth Night, Troilus and Cressida, and Hamlet. And
in the Anes Theater, we're producing The Book Club Play and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. If
you want to know more about any of the, see any of the shows, the acting or artistic
companies. If you want to get tickets, please visit bard.org. These other Shakespeare Festival
podcasts are also on the website in their media section. But if you want to listen to more APEX
Hour podcasts, for all the ones we've ever done, Lauren and I, they are at the APEX podcast. It's
called APEX Hour at SUU, and you can get those anywhere your podcasts, where you get your
podcasts. So we're going to go with the fifth song today because I want to be important to you.
That this is called Why Should I Care? by Diana Krall. Why'd you choose this one?
Brian Gonzales 16:42
I think actually I'm a huge fan of hers, and I it was actually the first thing I ever saw or heard
from her, and it was the theme song to a Clint Eastwood movie, I think, or they used it for a
Clint Eastwood movie. I think it was True Crime, and it was when I first heard and discovered
her. And there was a simplicity and elegance to the way she did the song. And also, I think the
song is such a perfect encapsulation of, of, of a person that has not moved on when the other
one has, and pretty much everyone I've ever played it for has went, "that's beautiful, that's
profoundly sad." But I just think it's a beautiful number, and I love her voice. So it makes me,
it's important to me, and it makes me happy, so.
Ryan Paul 18:12
Okay. Well, thank you, Brian, for being here.
Brian Gonzales 18:16
Thanks for having me.
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Ryan Paul 18:16
Thank you, Lauren, for for being here as well. We're going to go out with Why Should I Care? by
, and as you all know, in the words of the great American poet Bill Withers, "I wish you well."