Join host Ryan Paul on this special Utah Shakespeare Festival edition of the APEX Radio Hour for a compelling conversation with intimacy coordinator and choreographer Sacha Comrie. Sacha shares her journey from her foundational dance training at Spelman College to shaping emotional safety, boundaries, and movement across stage and screen productions. Discover how intentional mentorship, clear consent practices, and human-centered collaboration create vibrant, supportive creative spaces for performers.
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[Reese Whitaker]
You are listening to the Apex Hour hosted by Ryan Paul on KSUU Thunder 91.1. This show allows more personal time with our guests, allowing them to give us their stories and opinions. We will also give you new music to listen to, hoping you enjoy some new sounds and genres. Welcome to this episode of the Apex Hour.
[Lauren Bird]
Welcome to the Apex Radio Hour, Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'm producer Lauren Bird and I'm here today with director of Apex and professor of history, Ryan Paul, and our special guest, Sasha Comrie. I'll turn it over to you, Ryan.
[Ryan Paul]
Thank you, Lauren. I am so excited, Sasha, to have you here. We've been friends for a little bit and had some conversations and is excited to get you in the studio to have a conversation about your work and about the Shakespeare Festival and everything else that you do.
Yeah. I should say that Sasha is the intimacy coordinator for this season for the three plays in the Ingolstadt Theater, Twelfth Night, Troilus and Cressida, and Hamlet. And also she does some movement and specific choreography for Troilus and Cressida, which is amazing.
I even demonstrate a little bit of it just in the hallway a minute ago. But don't worry. She was very kind to to tell me that I am not a dancer.
[Sacha Comrie]
No, that's not true. I did not say anything like that. Do not believe anything that Ryan says.
There you go. See?
[Ryan Paul]
Welcome. That's my my students believe that, too. So let's we'll talk about what all that entails and what an intimacy coordinator is and how that kind of comes about.
But first, let me ask you this. This is a question I ask everybody when we start kind of a how we get to now question. OK, so can you tell me a little bit about where you're from, you know, how you got to do what you do?
[Sacha Comrie]
OK, it's been kind of a winding road, and I think that a lot of artists probably identify with that, that winding road thing. But my background is definitely in dance. That's that's like home base for me, so to speak.
So I went to college and I did a drama with a concentration in dance because that was the only option for dance at the university that I attended, which was Spelman College, which was great. And I'm glad that I went. That's an HBCU, right?
It's an HBCU. Yeah, it's a women's college. It's actually ranked the number one HBCU in the world.
I will say that.
[Ryan Paul]
What would you should say? What that is, what the acronym?
[Sacha Comrie]
So an HBCU is a historically black college or university, and they have them all over the country. Like they're literally everywhere. So I went to Spelman, which is a women's college, and we share a campus with Morehouse College, which is our like kind of like our brother school.
Their official sister school is another school is Bennett, I believe. But we share a campus with them. Clark Atlanta, Morris Brown, and the it is a seminary college as well.
So all those universities are centered right there in the middle of Atlanta, Georgia. People like MLK, Spike Lee, Esther, Esther Rowe. So Spelman, Spelman, Morehouse, they have like a long, a long history with the arts, with social political leadership.
So, yeah, it was a really, really good experience. So I went to Spelman College and studied drama with a concentration in dance. So that that gave me the opportunity to bridge my background in like I was a competition dancer.
So I did like the local dance studio thing in my community in Orlando, Florida, and did the competition thing on the weekends. And, you know, that was a really great experience in terms of like showmanship. But in terms of crafting storytelling, obviously, like industrial dance is very different, industrial commercial dance, very different from dance and choreography that is really, really deeply rooted in storytelling.
So it was really nice to go to university, study storytelling and start to be like, oh, I can put these two things together. And I got the opportunity to get mentored by the director of the program there, Kenneth Green, who had a very heavy industrial commercial background in terms of his professional career. And he used to like double book himself, I think, and then would send me as his assistant.
And for me at that time, this was in this was in the early 2000s. And I was a young person, like 20 something. So, you know, going to teach a group of kids and getting $250 for the day was like, oh, yeah, money.
So, you know, it was a match made in heaven. So he would send me out and I was able to graduate with like a decent resume, which was really nice. It set me up for what the next steps were.
These were were choreography jobs. These were all like choreography and teaching jobs. So I was kind of like a guest artist, a guest teaching artist in private schools like private dance schools.
And I worked at Pebble Brook High School, which is a really great performing arts school. They crank out a lot of Broadway talent. So I was able to work within those programs in and around the Atlanta area.
And then I also got dispatched to some other like like Columbia, South Carolina. I worked in the in that area for a while. I taught in New York when I lived there with Broadway Dance Center.
Like I worked for Frank Hatchet, who's a great jazz dancer. And so that's kind of like the foundation of my career is dance teaching and choreography. So you you grew up in Orlando.
I grew up in Orlando, Florida. Yes. And so what did your parents do?
So my dad is a dentist. He just retired. He's 83.
He just retired. Wow. And he's now lately talking about coming out of retirement.
To be a dentist, to be a dentist again, because, you know, he's an old school Jamaican. So like old school Jamaicans, like they believe in like hustle number one, hustle number two, hustle number three. And that's like how you make money.
Like you get you, you make money and you create security and comfort for yourself and for your family by getting up and going to work every single day. And I'm just like, I love that. I think it's beautiful.
It was a great lesson to learn as a young person. But that is kind of not how people make all their money anymore. So but he's I mean, he's he's comfortable.
They're comfortable. So my dad was a dentist. He just retired.
My mom was a hotel executive, like a hospitality executive. And she actually left that career when my dad started his practice and she helped him launch the practice. And she was his office manager.
So they worked together my whole life.
[Ryan Paul]
So what what did you what's the first thing you remember wanting to be when you grew up? And I will tell you this, I don't know that I believe you if you said I wanted to be an intimacy coordinator.
[Sacha Comrie]
No, I did not. I did not. But I will say I used to play with dolls a lot.
Like I loved Barbie. And I was just telling I think I was talking to Mare about it the other day. Mare is in she plays Ulysses in in Troilus in Cressida.
And then she also plays Gertrude in Hamlet. And we were we were just like, you know, in the in the Engelstad waiting on something to happen. And we were talking about our childhood.
And I was talking about Barbies specifically and how I was like, I realized I was staging love scenes then is really what I was doing. Like these Barbies were like acting and they were telling stories and there was drama and they were in love and then they were getting married and then they were having kids. So I was intimacy coordinating then.
But you're right. I did not think that I wanted to be one. I actually wanted to be a gymnast when I was little.
[Ryan Paul]
Wow.
[Sacha Comrie]
That was like it was the time of the 80s. It was Mary Lou Retton. It was like those Americana leotards.
I had the leotard.
[Ryan Paul]
I was really heroes. They were the American heroes.
[Sacha Comrie]
They were like and they were these like little. Bite sized people that were doing so much good and getting people really, really excited. So for me, as a as a bite sized human, I was like, oh, I want to.
That's what I want to do. I want to fly in the air and like make people feel good and be happy.
[Ryan Paul]
So when then do the arts? I mean, you talk about going to college. When do the arts into your life?
Were your parents like theater goers?
[Sacha Comrie]
No, but they grew up in Jamaica and they very much so had a classical education. So they you know, they studied classic work and read a lot of Shakespeare. So they've always been interested.
They've always talked about it like they've you know, they have their interests. Like my dad loves to talk about, you know, Merchant of Venice. And like one of his favorites is Twelfth Night.
And my mom, you know, my mom always has loved Hamlet. And they they used to talk about these plays. Excuse me.
And I grew up in Orlando and there was at the time of growing up in Orlando because we didn't have a theater. We had a very, very small theater, put it that way. We didn't have a theater that could accommodate fly space.
So we were really limited in what kinds of shows could come to Orlando. And it was like finally when I think like basically when Disney had a whole bunch of shows, they're like, well, we need our we need our own theater. So they finally built the Dr. Phillips Center. So like now we get lots of really, really great like touring Broadway. But when I was young, we didn't really get a whole lot of options. But I did not grow up going and seeing shows.
It was just something that I was exposed to because I was a dancer, because I went to like a dance competition school. And then with that group, we traveled to New York City and I saw the revival of Chicago with I saw it with B.B. Newarth and Anne Rankine, which is insane. So I saw Anne Rankine live on stage doing Fosse choreography.
So once I saw that show, clearly I was like, oh, I'm hooked. This is exactly what I want to do between that. And I think I saw on that same trip original cast of Rent.
So, yeah, that was that was my introduction to the arts. It was musical, musical theater. And I was just like, oh, OK, I would get to sing.
And dance and maybe say some things that looks really cool. So that's how I got interested.
[Ryan Paul]
So when you when you sit your parents down and say, this is what I want, what I want to do for a living, was it received with huzzahs or was it received with? Yeah, let's think about this.
[Sacha Comrie]
Yeah, I think, Ryan, this this is what like what is it called? A rhetorical question? Yeah, no.
First generation American Caribbean American kid. No, it was not exciting. We were not excited about this choice.
It was kind of like tolerated for a little while.
[Ryan Paul]
Like a pat like it'll pass.
[Sacha Comrie]
Yeah, like, OK, it's it's a phase like she's going to get over this, you know. OK, like Spelman College was. They were like, yeah, you're not going to an art school.
That's not happening. And I was really limited in like what my exposure and knowledge is about getting myself set up that way. So I didn't know the difference between a B.A. or B.F.A. or an M.F.A. or like I didn't know any of that stuff. So, you know, I was just kind of like going along and trying to make it work. And Spelman, thank God, at the time, had somebody there that, you know, had a commercial industrial background and saw something in me in terms of my dance background that made him be like, oh, she's got the things that, you know, she can help me do the job. So it worked out.
[Ryan Paul]
And your parents eventually realized they came around.
[Sacha Comrie]
But it was it was blood, sweat and tears. It was. Yeah, it was really hard for them to accept.
And not as much my mom. Not as much my mom, because my grandmother, my grandmother, funny thing about her, my maternal grandmother, she wanted to be a dancer. She wanted to do follies, what they called like follies cabaret, which I think was like very risque back in the day.
It was not like, you know, like nice young women didn't do those things. But she was like, I just want to like dance and cut a rug and perform. And my my great grandmother was like, absolutely not, not on my watch.
So whenever my mom would go to my grandmother and talk to her about what are we going to do with this girl? Like she has these crazy dreams about dancing places and singing songs and blah, blah, blah. And my grandmother was like, let her do what she want to do.
So so, you know, like that was that was her that was her support. And the funny thing about my dad is that my dad is very much so a performer. Like he's a musician.
He's played in reggae bands his whole life. He plays like a lot of Soca and Calypso and like Caribbean music. And I grew up, you know, being at at band practice at rehearsal.
And he like he loves to dance. I have videos of them. They're like always performing.
So they very much so are, you know, innately natural performers. But they just always felt like because of their, you know, English, Caribbean sensibilities, that the arts are a hobby. And, you know, you go to work and you do the things and you toil and you strive.
And then, you know, you hopefully you have enough free time that you can carve out a little time for for joy. What does your dad play? He plays the bass guitar.
And my mom was a pianist. So I grew up with a lot of music in the house, a lot of music.
[Ryan Paul]
So you you graduate, you connect with this guy who kind of helps you get some, you know, site, some gigs. Yeah. As far as to help build a name for yourself.
Yes. So when does that then turn into this is my full time job?
[Sacha Comrie]
Um, yeah, I mean, again, it's like the freelance art thing is it is a winding road. And I've done I've done a lot of jobs. So I've had lots of different jobs.
I I worked in bridal sales, bridal styling. Like I worked on Madison Avenue with Umsala Barra. Like she's a bridal designer.
And I worked with them for a while. I I was in an R&B group and like was a recording artist and was working on that and taught dance classes all over the place. And did all, you know, did all the different things.
And it was once I probably once I moved back to Orlando because I just needed a break. I had lived in the city for about three and a half years and I was teaching dance and in an R&B group. And it just had gotten weird.
Like I just where I was in life, I just felt like I looked around and I was like, if I'm living like this in 10 years, will I will that be the life that I want to be living at that stage? And I was like, no. So I was like, OK, well, I have to get out of here and make some changes.
So moved back to Orlando. I was there teaching for a while for the studio that I used to teach out in a bunch of other schools in the area. And then I decided, you know what, let me let me try my hand at performing again.
So I started performing again, like doing some local theater. I performed and and choreographed a production of Little Shop. And I was like, oh, I really like this.
This is great. Like I'm having a great time. And then I auditioned for something out in L.A. and I got that at the Disney Studios. So doing that production, it was like it was a workshop where Disney was workshopping new works and they were trying to pick new plays. And they didn't end up picking the play, but working in that community and being in the soundstage and like seeing all those creatives and meeting some of the people that I met, like I got to interface with Stephen Schwartz. And I was just like, OK, this is this is like really a thing.
And this is happening. And I'm getting feedback from these people that are doing this at the highest level. So once I got there, I went back.
I ended up getting back to Orlando and launching a performing art school for kids. So that's kind of when art really became my full time job. And even though it was my full time job, because of how hard it is, entrepreneurship is just hard, like turning a profit.
Like you're five, seven. That's kind of the sweet spot where you start to see money like actually happening for yourself. And that is exactly what my journey was like.
I ran it for 10 years. And that's when it became full time for me. Art did.
Once I launched my own performing art school for kids. So we did musical theater and we did like a dance competition program. So I.
I know. So it's still winding. No, no, no.
[Ryan Paul]
It's I love the kind of apprentice journeyman kind of idea of, you know, a to quote the Beatles song Along and Winding Road. But let's let's take our first break. Because I I'm going to change the song up, Lauren.
But I I because I want to get I want I think this is a great place to then shift into talking about intimacy.
[Sacha Comrie]
Yes.
[Ryan Paul]
Nation. What that means. So let's start with a song that we had just talked about this.
One of my all time favorite artists and performers, Bill Withers. Yes. So the song for those of you who've listened to our radio show before our podcast, know that instead of doing commercials, we ask our guests to come up with a list of four or five songs that that resonate or mean something to them.
And then we we play those songs. So the song and I'm excited to share your musical cornucopia with with our listeners. But the first song that I want to play is a song you chose called Lovely Day.
And it's by Bill Withers. Can you tell us why you chose this song?
[Sacha Comrie]
I chose this song because anytime I play this song, it makes me feel good. I really do use it as like a mantra. I'll play it in the morning.
If I'm not having a lovely day, I'll put it on and I will move to it. And that always makes me feel better, at least. Yeah, I don't know.
It just it vibrationally, it feels really good. I don't know if it's the tempo. I'm not sure if it's exactly what the tempo is, but I feel like it calms me down.
Yeah, it's just all vibes. Very cool there for the vibes.
[Ryan Paul]
So this is Lovely Day by Bill Withers.
[Lauren Bird]
Something without one love Bears heavy on my mind Then I look at you And the world's all right with me Just one look at you And I know it's gonna be A lovely day When the day that lies ahead Seemed impossible to fail When someone else instead of me Always seems to know the way Then I look at you And the world's all right with me Just one look at you And I know it's gonna be A lovely day A lovely day When the day that lies ahead Seemed impossible to fail When someone else instead of me Always seems to know the way Then I look at you And the world's all right with me Just one look at you And I know it's gonna be A lovely day
[Ryan Paul]
choreographer and intimacy coordinator for the Utah Shake Professor played the Engelstad plays this season Sasha Comrie and and I gotta tell you we do not video this this podcast for a variety of reasons but it's too bad we didn't because you should have seen the dance and going on in this studio you know you think that the fundamental of any choreography is the jazz square like you know but but we moved beyond the jazz we were grooving right Lauren oh yeah oh so let's let's trend let's transition a little bit to this discussion of the intimacy coordinator which I realize is is not necessarily new in the arts world but but for the Shakespeare Festival it is in the last few years so let's talk about first of all what that is what it entails and how you decided that that is
[Sacha Comrie]
what you wanted okay yeah so intimacy coordination is a job that is often when we say coordinator we often reserve that for film and television spaces due to the fact that that position really is coordinating interdepartmentally so that person is managing the consent and boundaries of actors with consent in mind obviously the actors consent in mind but also boundaries and restrictions of unions of networks of production companies and that person that is interfacing between creative leadership like on set like the director director of photography 8182 they coordinate between wardrobe heads costume designers to manage modesty garments they interface with special effects because there may be a need for special effects in a scene like that so the coordinator position really is you know in between a bunch of different people and not only do they provide support to actors in terms of like understanding their boundaries and getting the information needed to create writers which is kind of like an addendum to a contract but they also create choreography they observe monitors to make sure that like everything that is being shot is adhering to what was the pre you know agreed upon terms of the writer so yeah so they do a lot of different things in terms of keeping actors safe on set to make sure that their boundaries are observed and that the networks don't have to go back and like reshoot for instance so we may have like specific rules about I only want to be shot from above my shoulders in this scene I would be in the monitor to make sure that in fact the camera angle did not fall below that person's shoulders because if it did and you know once they're in post and they start to see this stuff they could potentially have to like throw out the whole shot and reshoot it so that person is actually doing a lot to make sure and guarantee that you know money is saved that liabilities are managed and maintained so that's the
[Ryan Paul]
coordinator position so this is pretty I mean we think about first of all is love
[Sacha Comrie]
scenes like this is where anything intimate or vulnerable so it could be like actual nudity it could be implied nudity that the that the actor is like well it's implied nudity I want to make sure that you actually shoot me in a way that is consistent with what I'm comfortable so it could be implied nudity it could be simulated sex it could be just a scene of a vulnerable nature the person may have to you know give a dramatic cry on camera and they're like I actually really need someone there or I need a mental health coordinator there so those that position it covers that and creates choreography as well so they may actually create the movement that that we're gonna see on camera or on on stage so yeah there's coordination there's choreography and then there's direction so when does this start being a thing well I know people that have been working in this business and doing this type of work and creating these concepts for 30 years someone like and James is in charge of coordinators of intimacy coordinators of color and she is been doing this work for a long time she's an MFA she works primarily on Broadway so she's been at it for a while Kaia Dunn is another person who's mentored me and she's out of Carnegie Mellon she's been writing and thinking about this work for at least a decade as well as a professor and but I mean this this work primarily came out of in terms of when we think about it in mass media out of the me to me to movement just as a result of all of these companies like getting embarrassed and having liability issues and they start to see a financial I think need for investing in this type
[Ryan Paul]
of insurance and so when did you start doing that as a as a career so I became
[Sacha Comrie]
interested I was actually going to school I was going to grad school in Atlanta Georgia at Agnes Scott University and I was studying social innovation of change social innovation and change and entrepreneurship because I was really interested in like how do we how do we take businesses and institutions and organizations and make them more human centered because I just feel like that is we have to figure out a sustainable way of living together and community and I think that how we how we are productive and how we create profit that's a big part of how we exist in community and so I recognize that there's something that's shifting in the idea of investing in people while getting a return is is I think it's the way of the future so I was going to school studying that and the pandemic hit and I was going to school in person I had every intention of going to school in person my first semester was lovely the next semester is going to school in the pandemic we're not to say that it was not a good time so my heart goes out to all those like young people that were doing like high school and undergrad and I didn't have like the out-in-the-world life experience it was hard so anyways I was watching quite a bit of television as you can imagine and while I was studying and I discovered Bridgerton so I was watching Bridgerton I was like gosh these love scenes are really good and I've always loved love scenes but I remember these being particularly good to me and then starting to see articles and talk about it and it was Alicia Rodas had done I think it was Alicia Rodan who did the did the intimacy for it and I was like wow this is a job this is this is a job I've been doing this with Barbie since I was little so I started to investigate and do some research and I got online and I took a class with intimacy for stage and screen which is a UK based organization and I just loved it so much because it really bridged my interest in storytelling as someone who studied acting my background as a mover and a choreographer and then my interest and deep love of advocacy work I mean I think that we all have an obligation and responsibility to bring our best selves and if we can make the world better like even if it's just our little world around us better that we have an obligation and responsibility to do that we can so yeah that job when I started to research it and take some classes here and there like I took some classes there I took some classes with IDC I took some classes with TIE and I was just like oh wow this is a thing this is this is really cool I'm excited about this and then I thought well if I'm gonna invest any more money and like do the certification or continue with this education I should probably get into a room and see what this work is like in real life so I reached out to a bunch of intimacy people if I had seen their work on film television theatrical space I just reached out to them and I was like hey I saw your work on blah blah blah I thought that was really cool this scene da da da da da can I come observe you can I shadow you and finally someone said yes to me like the first person that responded was actually Ann James and Ann James was like girl you don't need me to mentor you and but she was always like super accessible and always helpful if there was ever a question I had you know about something specific she would always make herself available and she did not know me from Eve and then Kaia Dunn who didn't know me from Eve either said yes just like said yes to me she's like I have this thing coming up in August I think it was I think was in August I'm gonna be working a production of choir boy at it was at Seattle rep it was Seattle rep and act those two theaters I think worked together for that production and she said if you can get yourself there you can come and shadow me for the 10 days and I went out to Seattle and I think part of the reason why she said yes to me was because I had Ain't Too Proud on my resume so I had toured with them and she had just taken her son who I think is now actually about to go to college had taken her son to see the show and you know he's a young black man black he was a boy at the time and he saw it and was just like gobsmacked about seeing these you know black men on stage doing what they were doing so that helped to solidify his interest in the arts so I think that her connection with that show and seeing it on my Instagram because that's where I connected with her she was just like yeah come out and people were like Kaya she could have been crazy and she was like no I I felt comfortable that you know she wanted to to come and learn and and I always want to support that
[Ryan Paul]
because she's such a great teacher and mentor which I love this this idea about your story right is that it seems to me that you you know someone gave me some wise advice one time which was you know if you like where you are you find reasons to stay and not reasons to go mm-hmm and and it seems to me that is as you shared your story with me over the years that is what I think about you yeah I found reasons to stay and you found people and people have said at these really critical turning points in your life to say well no don't just go and read this book or you know or watch this this master class DVD you know you
[Lauren Bird]
want a DVD is Lauren it's a I've been asked that many times yes I would watch
[Sacha Comrie]
VHS is at my aunt's house I'm I want to check in on which ones I'm like what work cuz you know we always keep like the same three in rotation that was a thing when I would go to my aunt's house and watch Hercules on VHS okay I love
[Ryan Paul]
that movie it's so good that's a good one that is a good one so but these people have you go to them and they mentor you yeah and and then move forward so you go to Seattle you you get mentored in this production and then you
[Sacha Comrie]
just you move forward just move forward you just keep on taking steps right like it has not okay there's been a certain level of ease in my journey because there has always been a hand to hold and I've and what that's taught me is is that if you have people you have everything that you could ever need in life period so I try and be that to people and I know that there's always gonna be a hand somewhere to pull me up or vice versa but yeah I've always just I think I think it's probably like growing up with Afro-Caribbean parents like they grew up very much so in like village lifestyle where everybody knew each other and everybody helped each other and there was never an idea of that like you didn't have a place to stay I remember when I went to LA and I did that play I didn't you know I didn't have a place to stay my parents just called around to friends and they were like Don them not done them um well live in in Los Angeles yeah man call you know and they just like literally call this lady Val Wilkes Jamal Wilkes the basketball player the LA Laker like they call Jamal Wilkes and Val Wilkes and ask them hey our daughter has is doing this play she's really excited about it the money not good you can't put her up for us yeah man tell her if it come and I fly to LA and I have a place to live for three months but no courtside seats no courtside seats no he had been he had retired at that point no courtside seats but they are very kind people and that just you know things like that have always taught me just ask the worst thing that people
[Ryan Paul]
could say is no yeah I mean that's like think about all the times I went to try to get someone to go to prom no well they eventually said yes well yeah I guess someone said yes someone said yes I know her she's a nice lady that was not prom yeah but yeah the forever prom the forever look at you so let's I want to we're gonna shift into another break but before we do that I think the real lead-in is to talk about ain't too proud so if and how that happens so if you're not familiar ain't too proud is the the musical journey of the temptations which you know is a big part of my my music background in that sense just wish it would rain by the way it's my favorite temptation song it's yeah and I know that it's not like lovely day but that's actually what I put on when I
[Sacha Comrie]
want to feel better so you kind of like wash it away oh yeah like wash away the
[Ryan Paul]
bad time mm-hmm yep I just wish it would rain but anyway it is a fabulous and beautiful show so let's talk about ain't too proud and how that comes about yeah
[Sacha Comrie]
I was going to grad school studying intimacy remotely kind of having a hard time in the sense that like I think at that point it was like it was like month nine and I my parents are older and I just I really stayed away from them that whole time so I was really it was really alone it was just me and Rosie the dog and we had a we had a good time and that bonding time was good for us but it was hard so I just get a random phone call from a college professor of mine dr.
Joan McCarty she is a a PhD I believe I think her PhD is actually an anthropology but she's also a stage manager and she taught in Spellman's drama department I think for at least 30 years and one day she just called me out of the blue and was like hey I don't know what you're doing but I put your name in for a job are you busy and I was like what is the job tell me all about it and she's like it's a tour it's gonna be a little while you'd be away and I was like my bags are packed what is the job so she starts telling me about it and I was just like what like New York City rehearsal new 42 national tour sold so they needed what they needed they needed a health and safety like a COVID safety manager because they were launching the tour and it was still COVID times and they wanted someone that had a you know production theatrical background that also had like a little bit of health know-how I had worked in my dad's office as a you know as a teenager as a young person and so yeah I think that they were desperate they really needed somebody they needed somebody that would could be away for a long time on a moment's notice and at first they tried to get me to come out for three months and I negotiated for six because I was like you know that's that's a lot to uproot myself for just three months and I ended up staying for almost two years so that was work with work like that was the first national tour of of Ain't Too Proud and it was great like I I worked very closely with company management and stage management so I learned a lot about theater on that side and you traveled with and I traveled with the tour yeah it was the it was the first national tour so I think my accountant said that like that year he gave me the record for the amount of states the most amount of states filed in one period I think and I think it was like 24 states
[Ryan Paul]
so in those tours I mean there's probably a large number of people maybe
[Sacha Comrie]
not I don't know how large that would be but I think our company that we traveled with consistently was like it was something like maybe 60 members do the
[Ryan Paul]
do the actors engage with the company in that way or generally do they oh you
[Sacha Comrie]
mean like as a community is it like a traveling community yeah I mean that was such a special time I think because people had been isolated people were like you know these these touring performers and these touring you know creatives and crew members were like when are we gonna get to work again so I think when we got out there people were just like yay we're like we're back at it and people the community really we we really came together because I just think that we had to we had to isolate we had to like sign an agreement that we wouldn't expose our community to outside people and people took it really really seriously and took masking really seriously and we ended up having like so many other tours we had an outbreak relatively early on in the tour and yeah I just everybody really came together and everybody was very very bonded it was a it was an incredible experience and I've made really really dear friends both actors management crew members I just met some really fantastic people and that and the company the touring company made an intention of as you probably know you go into creative spaces backstage and you know you don't see a lot of brown people doing different things like there may be brown people that are doing black and brown people that are doing you know performing but you may not see crew members like you may not see management and they did a really really great job of assembling like a very very diverse community of people and we experienced a lot of things like we actually experienced the Buffalo shootings together so we were actually in Buffalo when that happened and there were people that were victims that were slated to come to the show that night and I remember this is emotional for me this is crazy I remember my head carp was such a nice man he since passed and he's from he was from mom he was from Philadelphia and I remember when it happened he came to me we had this really heartfelt conversation about what it was because it was obviously a racially motivated shooting and I remember him just coming to me and being just beside himself with emotion because he was just like I've never experienced something like this in such close proximity to a community an entire community of black people that I am so dearly invested in and for him that was it was like a that was a game changer moment I remember just from the experience of us touring together and being working so closely and him like you know and I don't remember I don't know what kinds of tour I know that that Sean had like a very diverse diverse touring experience and like he met his wife on I think a production of Les Mis I think that's what it was so but he said he was like this is the first time that I've ever been this close and this such a close prox proximal relationship to black and brown people and having experiencing a tragedy like this and seeing it through your eyes and he's like and then feeling so helpless and I just remember us just like crying together like it was it was it was a very impactful moment did they do the show that night no we didn't do the show I'm trying to think that night wait no we didn't do the show we because it was in the middle of it was in the middle of our matinee on a Saturday so it was in the middle of the matinee on the Saturday and they canceled the evening show because it was at the grocery store that was actually on our city sheet so I had been at that grocery store maybe like a couple days before and it's very typical for people to eat at the grocery store on a break so it would have been very reasonable to say that like as soon as the show that that matinee show some of our company members could have been at that grocery store because it's normal on a to show day to just kind of like go to the grocery store grab some quick like snacks fruit things like that and then get back to your dressing room to chill for the break so yeah it was it was crazy so we we were we were really bonded group because we it was a lot of stuff that was happening at the time and it was diverse and interesting unique group and we really came together and it was really beautiful was quite like the
[Ryan Paul]
utopia so this song we've done a lot of stuff musically on the radio on the show lots of different things it's the first time we've done something like this so what you have given us is the trailer I mean what would you describe it I shared
[Sacha Comrie]
the trailer because I was like I just I couldn't pick I was struggling to pick one song from the show and but I would say that if I had to pick one song oh
[Ryan Paul]
no don't do it well you we're gonna do this I think this is a great thing this is what you want and we'll do it so this is the only because you know the temptations is everyone gets to intimately choose their own temptation song of course because it is the soundtrack to our lives so this is the the trailer of various clips from the production of ain't too proud and I would encourage you not only to pick up the soundtrack of this particular show but to do your own dive into the music of the temptations and you will be
[Sacha Comrie]
changed as they say I I think so you would be changed it for sure like the music that they were writing it was it was it was critical to I think our identity as a as a community so it's like for people of color for black people at the time I think that it was critical I think respect about respectability politics were really at play in mountain Motown and how they presented I think that was a really valuable important part of that legacy and and and in the imagery that came out of that time and it was you know a time of love songs that love songs were celebrated I would love for there to be more of that I just think that people need to at this time especially people need to love each other and do that openly and unapologetically with good intimacy coordination with good intimacy coordination that's right and boundaries and consent and people need to explore that stuff and an intimacy coordinator can absolutely help with that for sure okay this is the the
[Ryan Paul]
trailer to the musical ain't too proud
[Lauren Bird]
that was music from ain't too proud the life and times of the temptations you're listening to the apex radio our Utah Shakespeare Festival edition I'll turn
[Ryan Paul]
it back to you Ryan thank you Lauren again if there was a video here man now I'm no David Ruffin yeah but but I will tell you I did make the splits happen
[Sacha Comrie]
did you hit that yeah you did and the split yeah you roughing that for sure
[Ryan Paul]
Ryan my girl is what they say okay so let's let's imagine that image so there you go we're gonna Sasha Carmen she's the intimacy coordinator for the Shakespeare Festival for Ingolstadt shows and I don't want to talk about that the festival work yes that you've done so we this season you're doing that work for Charles and Cressida the tempers of tempest frozen Cressida 12th night and Hamlet yes but you've been here before let's talk about your first foray I mean how do you get the job at the festival and what do you do in those shows for my
[Sacha Comrie]
first year here I was in the Ains Theatre and I worked on the production of mountaintop and silent sky which was an incredible experience and the way that I actually got the job was I believe that it was Cameron that had asked Cameron Knight who was the director I believe asked Kaia Dunn to do it so Kaia is the mentor that I had mentioned earlier that had plugged me into that production of choir boy and she was unavailable so then she referred me to Cameron so Cameron and I had an interview and I think I had an interview with the interim your interim Eric living Derek Livingston yeah was the person that I interviewed I believe I interviewed with Derek first and after I interviewed with Derek then I interviewed with Cameron and then I interviewed with Melinda and it was great it was like it was really a fantastic experience it was a super obviously small casts mountaintop cast of two silenced guys cast of six cast of six and yeah it was just a really really tight-knit intimate room I worked with Joe I worked with Cameron Melinda all your Chapman who was here last year as well with Antony and Cleopatra and she played Truvy in steel Magnolia's a came or taught it the professor at Auburn professor at Auburn and you know so many so many of the people that are here year after year and it was it was just a fantastic experience because it was so very very collaborative and it was just a great
[Ryan Paul]
room we had a lot of fun and it's interesting that and let's clarify a little bit I mean we've talked about obviously one can see the need for intimacy coordination if we were doing if there were love scenes or nudity or those kinds of things but of course that's not happening in the mountaintop or in silent sky right beautiful shows so in that when we're not how do we wrap the need for intimacy coordination around shows where we're not having sex
[Sacha Comrie]
yeah I think it's again it's about like exposed vulnerability that's something else that is another like simulated sex nudity heightened vulnerability so I would say that both of those shows I mean mountaintop in terms of like the the social political parts of it being potentially very very triggering not only for the actors but also the creatives that are in the room doing the work I think that they were just both very exposed and they they needed and and silence guy had like a couple of sounds I had a couple of kisses and mountaintop definitely had some flirtation in it so it was just kind of like I think that the need for it was ultimately having the actors feeling mentally emotionally safe and then helping to work out some of the choreography for the around the intimacy specifically in silent sky so your first
[Ryan Paul]
season is and and and I think we should say that this is now something that that theater companies and actors and unions are insisting on someone be in the room
[Sacha Comrie]
to have those conversations yeah right yeah it I think it's important because we never want to make assumptions about who actors are where they're coming from what they're used to what they want to do what they don't want to do and I think that you know I think that where we went wrong in the past is assuming that yeah of course this is a part of the job of course it's of course you want to do this it's like well maybe not and maybe we can tell the same story in a different way maybe we can make sure that the audience gets the gist of the relationship understands the relationship and we we can do that whole suit that whole scene that whole love scene can be done in like can it be behind a screen or a scrim like can it be done in silhouette like do the actors actually have to be nude on stage maybe they don't have to be so yeah I think that that person the intimacy person helps the creatives to think about storytelling in in different ways to make sure that everybody feels safe that's ultimately what we do and just having that person there even if they're not really doing a whole lot because you know there are some directors in their process where that they don't really you know they don't really want a whole lot of input and I think that that's totally fine as long as it's demonstrated that to the people in the room that we've thought about your comfort and your safety and I think that once people realize that their comfort and safety has been thought about and considered just that in itself opens up the dialogue for people to say what they want to do what they don't want to do
[Ryan Paul]
and then there's real consent where were you in my college production of hair joke just kidding that didn't happen no okay okay my onstage nudity was only limited to anyway so so that is the the first season you're here you're in the Ains yeah into I would think I mean in my mind beautiful moving shows that I mean as historian shows that were based on I mean loosely based on historical people yeah really thoughtful and we had some great conversations in the grove about those so you do these two shows in the Ains and then you come back the next year in a variety of capacities doing three shows yes so I worked on
[Sacha Comrie]
mackers I worked on as you like it and then I worked on Antony and Cleopatra and I did for Antony and Cleopatra I did both intimacy and the choreography but
[Ryan Paul]
this time though I mean you're not doing something to fill somebody's spot like the first time was like well I'm not available what about her yes but now
[Sacha Comrie]
now I've been asked back so it's official like yeah I got a date so yeah I got asked back which is great I always I'm that makes me happy like when people call you back two years in a row that's usually a pretty good sign and that experience was fantastic too coming back and getting to work with Ali again was always was always great she's fantastic and is now a dear friend and working with Carolyn on her ideas and all of her pomp and circumstance and over-the-top production numbers I just I just enjoy her vision so much it's so playful it's joyous and she's just a really good storyteller so the whole flag thing when she told me about I was like okay yeah sure I can learn how to do that I can do some YouTube University on color guard stuff so that's that's what we did and it was a blast and I think it turned out great and everybody
[Ryan Paul]
really enjoyed it yeah if you if you didn't see that production of Antony and Cleopatra the there's a naval battle in the play and it's always a debate of how to stage that naval battle and in Carolyn and you came up with this flag choreography that was pretty wild I think it that was all I mean that was
[Sacha Comrie]
Carolyn I she gave me my marching orders and I just took them and ran between me and Jeff and Jeff doing all that incredible fight direction in every Kent Jeffrey Kent yes Jeffrey Kent doing all of that incredible fight direction and choreography in between all of the the flags flying yeah it was just it was banana cakes and it worked so cool you enjoyed it I'm glad that you enjoyed it
[Ryan Paul]
so this season you're involved with with Hamlet and Troilus and Cressida and Twelfth Night what should our patrons be looking for that your hands were I guess that's probably not the right metaphor that you were involved in what scenes
[Sacha Comrie]
specifically do you sit down and coordinate um love scenes so in in Hamlet um I help actors have conversations that's where we started like Walt and Katie and I sat down and met with Beth Beth has a very clear vision of you know what she wants to see as a director and it's fantastic because I'm there very much so in a support role so I can just help kind of like shape or track track choreography track the things that that the actors are have discovered with with best directions so I can't say that like I don't feel like as responsible for their work because both of those actors are super duper they are super experienced and they have a rapport they've been working together for years yeah and then I help definitely shape dumb show clean dumb shows just like lending my eye to like when arms go up and when flares happen and when we turn and just kind of running things and then for Troilus and Cressida obviously the big moment that you know people are excited about including the actors is our entre act so there is there's a piano there's there's a singer there and there's a bunch of gentlemen and and ladies on stage saluting and marching and doing all kinds of really cool stuff so I I think people will look forward
[Ryan Paul]
to seeing that for sure so the on track is the when you come back after intermission yes and it is it's um Wow it's a showstopper it's a showstopper
[Sacha Comrie]
yeah and and they are this this cast of actors this company of actors is really really selling it and they put a lot of time into it and a lot of effort and energy and they're like nailing it so I'm I'm really really excited every single time I watch it I'm thrilled and I enjoy it so much so there's that one and then there's also there's a lot of dancing actually that happens in Twelfth Night so there's I love the catch song that one's so much fun there's a lot of story in that and then the finale is beautiful and it's all about love and the connections that were formulated over the course of the play so yeah those are the those are the big dance ones and then as far as intimate moments you know the intimate moments between our Troilus and our Cressida are really really beautiful because that's the story of of two young people figuring out the love that they have held for one another and have not been able to share with one another and I think that all of us can I identify with that I mean we've all been young and we're trying to figure out is this love required or unrequited so it's really really nice to see that that story between these these two these
[Ryan Paul]
two actors these two characters so like all of our directors designers I mean you've been here for a month or two and then you in a week actually not even in a week in a couple days from the recording of this podcast you're off to
[Sacha Comrie]
your next gig I'm off to my next gig yeah yeah so going home back to Atlanta because I am based out of Atlanta and I will have like downtime for preparation for the neck for my next job so the job that's happening right now and that's kind of been going on this whole time that I've been away has been Talbot Pines which is the Scooby-Doo reboot so I've been working on that a little bit remotely and that is with Warner Brothers for Netflix and then at the end of July I'll start in-person work for production of Beautiful the musical
[Ryan Paul]
that's a beautiful show so I do want to talk about the very quickly before we move into our final break is this this thing this little project you do in between the seasons for Netflix a show called his and hers yeah which to be
[Sacha Comrie]
fair has some intimate moments just a couple yeah just a few so his and hers I worked on in the fall of 2024 actually so that's when we shot that we shot that from September until December of 2024 and how I got that job was from Derek Champion 81 fantastic guy and we worked together on One Spoon of Chocolate which is the RZA is the new RZA movie so that was produced by Quentin Tarantino and I worked on that with him before and that had that had quite a bit of intimacy and like very unique and specific intimacy so after I had done that with worked on that with champ champ was like she's she's earned her stripes and so he referred me to the Netflix gig which was which was his and hers yeah with and these are big-name actors yeah I was with Tessa Thompson and John Bernthal and Crystal Fox were the big names and it was that was an incredible incredible
[Ryan Paul]
experience you sit in a room with them and talk about that kind of stuff yeah
[Sacha Comrie]
like sit down and talk to them about you know their specific boundaries and like their yeses and no's and you know I you know obviously I can't give details but I'll just say about all three of those actors that I named they are both so fantastic really really specific in their process they are kind and collaborative and invested in this work yeah and it was just it was it was a pleasure to work with them and we talked about offerings like that's kind of how I approach the work that I'm when I'm doing work on set and I'm working with really really seasoned actors that have a specific process and how they approach intimacy and it generally ends up being just like making sure the two actors are on the same page and feel safe together and then I'll provide some offerings based on like camera angles like where I know the camera is gonna be positioned or what we're gonna be capturing is it gonna be close it's gonna be wide is it gonna be whatever you know what I mean like and what's the storytelling like who are these characters who are these people where where are they in this moment of intimacy so I'll provide choreography offerings to the actors and it's kind of one of those things where usually it's it's not that prescriptive it's probably not nearly as prescriptive as what we're doing on like live on stage and then they take and take what they want and leave what they
[Ryan Paul]
don't so it's a it's a yeah don't watch it with your parents Lauren it's we noted it's sassy yeah yes yeah okay so let's take our final break this is a song that you've chosen called war by Bob Marley yeah so why'd you choose this
[Sacha Comrie]
song I chose this song because first of all I'm a huge Bob Marley fan obviously first-generation American it's it's like a required part of my playlist and at that time I know that he was struggling with a lot and like what he was writing about at the time was I think reflective of the struggle of you know feeling kind of exiled from home because of some of the things that were happening there and he recognized that like globally politically socially that that anti-blackness was like a large part of why he was having such a terrible experience and so I I love this song because what I think that it does is a call to arms for all of us to collectively dismantle these systems of oppression because it's not we're all suffering under it you know all of us are having a hard time in some capacity you know it's either pigeon-holding us and trapping us into something like a system of behaviors that are maybe not for us or they are you know suppressing what is true for us or what is real or it's disconnecting us from our essential you know highest vibrational humanity so I appreciate the fact that it is speaking truth to power and it encourages all of us to dismantle the systems in our lives and in our communities that that don't serve the greatest highest good.
[Ryan Paul]
Okay this is War by Bob Marley.
[Lauren Bird]
War is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned. Everywhere is war. It's a war that until there are no longer first class and second class citizens of any nation.
Until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes. It's a war that until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race. It is a war that until that day the dream of lasting peace, world citizenship, rule of international morality will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued but never attained.
Now everywhere is war. War. And until the ignoble and unhappy regime that hold our brothers in Angola, in Mozambique, South Africa, sub-human bondage, have been toppled, totally destroyed.
Well everywhere is war. It's a war. War in the east.
War in the west. War up north. War down south.
War, war. Rumors of a war. And until that day the African continent will not know peace.
We Africans will fight. We find it necessary. And we know we shall win as we are confident in the victory of good over evil.
That was War by Bob Marley. You're listening to the Apex Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
[Ryan Paul]
Thank you, Lauren. We are here with Sasha Conroy. She's the Intimacy Director and Coordinator and Choreographer for the three Engelstad shows here in the season.
So Troilus and Cressida, Twelfth Night, and Hamlet. So if you've listened to the podcast before, you know as we move into our final segment, it's what's bringing us joy. So we'll go ahead and get started.
Sasha Conroy, what are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
[Sacha Comrie]
I'm always listening to frequency sound in my space. So I have Om Chant on in the background, and that does bring me a lot of joy. Like, peaceful, contented joy.
I also love Afropop. So I will just put on random Afropop and dance in my house. So that brings me joy.
Books, reading. So I gotta get back to some reading. Audie Cabrals, who has actually been a speech and dialect coach here, wrote and has sent me a copy of one of their books, Queering the Stage.
So that is something that I'm adding to my reading list per my career. And then I also, let's see. I get really excited about friends books.
So I'm friends with a bunch of academics that are writing books. So I am spending lots of time collecting all the books from my friends that are writing academic work. Frankly, they're writing about the things that I'm working on and thinking about.
So like I said, Audie Cabral's Queering the Stage. That's a book on intimacy, on live theatrical intimacy. And how we think about that work from a queer centered perspective.
And then I am also looking at my friend's books. She also sent me a copy. H.
Zara Caldwell. She's a professor of African American studies and media arts. And she's written a book called The Fiercest Kind.
And it chronicles the lives of five African American historical figures within the arts that created great change. So those are the two books right now that I got on my reading list that are bringing me joy. Because I'm proud of my friends for writing books.
And Subject Matter is on point. It's spot on for me. And then what else?
Listening to, reading.
[Ryan Paul]
Watching and you can, you don't have to name them all. Okay.
[Sacha Comrie]
Watching. I have been watching lately and this is, I don't know. This is just something that I've been doing at the end of the night.
I've been watching The Closer with Kira. Kira Sedgwick. How do you pronounce her last name?
Sedgwick. Sedgwick. Yes.
And I just find her performance in it so delightful. I love the Atlanta accent. I just think it's funny and charming.
And some of the little quirks that they develop for that character. I love like her thing with like her candy drawer. And it's just like a kooky character.
And I love a good detective show. And there's some nice intimacy as well involved between her and her, the character Fritzie. Her husband Fritzie.
[Ryan Paul]
And it's nice to have a bookend. It's a beginning and an end.
[Sacha Comrie]
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
So I've been, that's been giving me joy at the end of the night. I've been watching that.
[Ryan Paul]
Very cool. All right, Lauren Bird. What are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
[Lauren Bird]
So I've been reading the new Brandon Sanderson book that he co-wrote with Peter Aurelian. It's called Songs of the Dead. And it's about this like metal musician that gets killed and comes back as a necromancer and is discovering this whole like underworld of magic and mystery in London.
And just like the world building of it's really cool. And I love the how it focuses on music because I love music. So it's just really cool all around.
And I've been enjoying it while driving this week. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Mm hmm. What about you, Ryan?
[Ryan Paul]
What are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that's bringing you joy? So I'm late to the party on this. I follow this person on social media that talks about books.
And like, if you liked this book as a kid, you'll like this book as an adult. And the book that she had mentioned was Remarkably Bright Creatures. Mm hmm.
Which I, it had been out for a while, but I picked it up by Shelby Van Pelt. It is now, I think it's on Netflix, a Netflix movie, which I haven't seen. But I read the book, devoured the book, and just thought it was a beautiful story of love and loss and family and forgiveness.
And just with an octopus as part of a character that I think is really fascinating, is part of the story. So Remarkably Bright Creatures is what was bringing me joy this week.
[Sacha Comrie]
And it's all about octopi.
[Ryan Paul]
No, an octopus.
[Sacha Comrie]
Just one.
[Ryan Paul]
One octopus in an aquarium. And so the story goes from the octopus point of view. Yeah.
And then the other characters just kind of wander into each other's lives and have connections in ways that, I don't want to spoil it, but have connections. And it's a really fascinating and wonderful story. So like I said, I haven't seen the movie, which I hear has a few changes to the book.
But the book was brilliant. Very cool. So thank you, Sasha, for being here.
She is the Intimacy Director and Choreographer for our three shows on the Ingolstadt stage, Twelfth Night, Troilus and Cressida, and Hamlet. They are running in rep with the three shows in the Randall, Something Rotten, She Loves Me, and See How They Run. And then the two shows in the Ains Theatre, which are The Book Club Play and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
If you want more information about the plays, tickets, the artistic and administrative, the companies there, you can look that up at BARD.org. If you want to find and listen to any more of the Apex Radio Hour podcasts, you can find those anywhere you get your podcasts at Apex Radio Hour. So we're going to go out with a song you chose called Bittersweet by Leanne LaHavas.
Can you tell us why you chose this song?
[Sacha Comrie]
I chose this song because I am loving UK R&B right now. I just feel like the music that's coming out of there is reminiscent of Motown. It's a genre that allows people to explore love, again, openly, unapologetically, and I love that.
And even though this song is called Bittersweet and it's chronicling some type of disturbance or disruption in a relationship to the point where I think that she's ready to go. But what I love about it is it talks about it so honestly, candidly, and obviously in the song, she's torn. She's still there.
She's still accessible. And she feels like it's not going anywhere, but I think she still has love. And this is bittersweet.
It's hard. And I also love to sing it because it's in the mezzo-alto range. I love to sing.
I love karaoke. So this is one of my go-to karaoke songs as well because it's powerful and it's open and it's soulful. And I just, I love it.
I can't get enough of it.
[Ryan Paul]
All right. Thank you, Sasha. Thank you, Lauren.
Thank you, all those folks who are listening. And of course, we'll leave you with this song, but also in the words of the great American poet Bill Withers, I wish you well. This is Bittersweet by Leon Lajavas.
[Lauren Bird]
Oh Please stop asking Do you still love me? Don't have much to say Let's speak in the morning Please don't do this I'm too far away Don't know what to tell you Babe No more hanging around No more hanging around Now my sun's going down Telling me something isn't right Something isn't right Bittersweet summer rain I'm born again Broken pieces Bittersweet summer rain I'm born again No more hanging around No more hanging around Oh my sun's going down Telling me something isn't right I slept all Friday And you couldn't get through If we're good to know Does that make it true? Not completely We're picking that fight every day This shit's going nowhere Babe Bittersweet summer rain I'm born again Oh my broken pieces Bittersweet summer rain I'm born again No more hanging around No more hanging around I'm born again Oh my sun's going down Telling me something isn't right Something isn't right No more hanging around No more hanging around Oh my sun's going down Bittersweet Bittersweet summer rain I'm born again