Step behind the curtain with Tanya Searle, Festival Stage Manager and Artistic Associate at the Utah Shakespeare Festival. In this insightful conversation, Tanya pulls back the veil on the complex systems that keep a world-class regional theater running—from multi-year season planning and intricate scheduling matrixes to calling cues from the booth. Discover how a blend of organized precision and genuine human empathy fosters a supportive creative community where live performance can truly soar.
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Reese Whitaker
You are listening to the APEX Hour, hosted by Ryan Paul on KSUU Thunder 91.1. This show allows more personal time with our guests, allowing them to give us their stories and opinions. We will also give you new music to listen to, hoping you enjoy some new sounds and genres. Welcome to this episode of the APEX Hour.
Lauren Bird
Welcome to the APEX Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival edition. I'm producer Lauren Bird, and I'm here today with Director of APEX and Professor of History Ryan Paul, and our special guest Tanya Searle. I'll turn it over to you, Ryan.
Ryan Paul
Thank you, Lauren. I got to tell you, I have known Tanya for, Lauren, for many, many. Well, that makes us sound old, but many, many years, and have been impressed with with what she's done, and I am so excited to have this conversation with her. So we're here with Tanya Searle. She is the festival stage manager and an artistic associate at the Utah Shakes Festival. So thank you for being here and taking the time.
Tanya Searle
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Ryan Paul
So let's, briefly, before we get into kind of talking about you a little bit, tell our listeners what both those things are.
Tanya Searle
So, my official title is festival stage manager and artistic associate. So, festival stage manager means that I am in charge of the stage management department. I do our, all of our hiring for all of our stage managers. I supervise, I make the show assignments, I basically just manage that department. I also stage manage one, at least one production every season. I'm doing Something Rotten this year, and the artistic associate side means that I assist our artistic director John DiAntonio in a variety of capacities. I help with season planning. I help make the production, the seasonal production calendar every year based on input from a variety of people. I work with him on casting, both the the kind of administrative managerial side of it as well as the artistic side of it. So there, and there's a lot of other things that that go into it. We we share artistic oversight over the productions every season, and you know, work with directors and other lead staff to kind of give input about the the shows as they are being rehearsed and teched. So there's a lot of different little different pieces that go into it.
Ryan Paul
But it's really the, you're the nerve center of of really the festival, right? I mean, you're the production side. You connect all those different departments and get actors to be where they need to be on stage, and and you know this person's doing this, and you control that matrix of,
Tanya Searle
Stage management does. Yes, not me necessarily exclusively. I do create the master calendar for every season at the, at, usually in the fall for the following season. But stage management, individually, stage managers are the hub of communication for any production. We are there from the beginning of the process to the end of the process, which not everybody is, except for actors, which is probably why actors and stage managers are in the same professional union. But, so we run the rehearsal room, we make the schedules alongside the director. I have a separate person who manages schedules, and we can talk about that if you want. But not many places do it that way. We create reports. We sort of have our finger on the pulse of everything that's going on in the rehearsal room and communicate that out to the various departments that need that information, and then receive information back from them and pass it along inside the rehearsal room.
Ryan Paul
And not many people know that that the director is really only here for a brief time, relatively speaking, and once they leave, the stage manager is the the person in charge of that show.
Tanya Searle
That's correct. They, the stage manager is responsible, once the director leaves after the show is open, typically, for maintaining that production. So we call the show, which means that I say "go" a lot. We execute the, we tell people when to execute all of the lighting, sound, scenery shifts, those kind. We cue actors on and off stage in various ways. So we are the ones who are kind of the conductor of the show while it's in performance, and then we also create paperwork. We do lots and lots of paperwork. You got to love a spreadsheet to be a stage manager, that is about how the show gets set up every day, where all the props go. I have a brilliant assistant stage manager on Something Rotten that I've worked with for years here. Her name is , and she runs the backstage and makes sure that all of this, all of the crew is where they need to be, and helps gets us through tech manages emergencies backstage if there are any, which there have been a couple. And then we send out a report after every show that says, "Oh, this thing broke. Can we have that repaired before the next show?" And then we just give a little, commentary on how the show went. You know, the audience really seemed to like this part, this thing weird happened, just to keep a record, a running record of of how the shows are going.
Ryan Paul
So you're the one behind the glass at the back. So we all see the actors, how they traditionally raise their hand to the back. You're the one that we're applauding, as as well as the, you know, the other the, the, we don't do live orchestra but the conductor and the, those kinds of things.
Tanya Searle
They're gesturing at the conductor not at me because I've asked them not to to gesture at me. It, it's not just about me. It takes a village to make a show happen and so personally I don't like the booth gesture to stage management. That's a personal preference because I'm behind the scenes because I want to be behind the scenes, and also it's not just me, it's everybody that's behind them during a curtain call that's making it work.
Ryan Paul
So I think it's, it's, and we'll get into this a little more later, but it really is an an amazing thing. I think one of my highlights of my time that I've been around at the festival is that you've let me sit in, I think it was Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder last season. Just kind of sit in the back room, and it's pretty, I mean, you know, it's interesting. It's, you know, big book and, go, now, stop. Hey, you know, and, and multiple times, and this may come as a shock to you, Lauren, but not once did she have to say to me, "Don't touch that button." I was very, I think I was very polite.
Tanya Searle
You were very well behaved.
Ryan Paul
I was well behaved in, in the in the back, but it, it's a, it's an amazing process. So we'll, we'll get into how all that plays out in in a minute. And I do, it's important to note, I think, that, that you are the a full time employee of the Utah Shakespeare Festival, and all of the other stage managers are hired to come in and for the season.
Tanya Searle
That's right.
Ryan Paul
But you are here year round.
Tanya Searle
I am. As of 2020, I am a full time staff member at the festival, which is really fortunate. My entire career, first time I've had a full time job, and so I'm really grateful for that. But yes, everyone else is seasonal.
Ryan Paul
It was interesting, Lauren, when the festival, when when Tanya came on full time, you you literally heard the building go, "ah." That's, it was a, it was a strange and, thing, but it makes a lot of sense. So I always like to start, now, let's kind of wind back the clock a little bit and talk about kind of a how we get to now question. So you could tell us a little bit about where you're from and how you kind of ended up doing what you do?
Tanya Searle
I grew up in upstate New York in Schenectady, New York. My parents came from England. I was born there, my brother was born there. We moved here when we were babies, and my mother was involved, dad's an engineer, my mom was a nurse, is retired now, but she was always involved in community theater from the time I was little. In fact, the first time I was ever on stage was in, I think I was five or six, in her nursing school. The senior class did some kind of musical review, and I got put on stage for one of the doctors to sing a song to. And that was the first time I was ever on stage myself. But I'd grown up around it and been going to rehearsals and and being in community theater shows myself since I was a little kid, and you know, always, like most people, thought I wanted to be an actor. All through high school was in drama club, was in shows in drama club, in high school, in a very small high school, and when I when to college, I went to Saint Lawrence University, which is in way upstate New York near the Canadian border. I, again, wanted to be an actor, and I tried to get into the acting class. It was hard to get into, and I finally did, and was so nervous and sick to my stomach doing the acting class that was not fun. And in my junior year of undergrad, I had an acting teacher ask me to stage manage a show for him. The person who normally did the stage management for all of the department shows was busy, and this was sort of an extra outside project for an arts festival, and it was a play that he had written and that he was directing. It was a two hander, and I had no, I said, "What's a stage manager?" I had no idea. Even growing up in community theater, I had no idea what that was. We didn't have them in my high school.
Ryan Paul
And a two hander is a two person?
Tanya Searle
Two actor play, and I said, he said, "I think you'll be really good at it." I said sure, and so that was my first experience as stage manager, was doing this show, and it was in a a small studio theater. It was a play that was written about the Vietnam War, called TKO. It was set in a boxing ring, and there were two actors. One was a professional actor, and one was a student. And it had slide projectors, this was the late '80s, so there were slide projectors. I, I could not communicate, we did not have enough headsets. I couldn't talk to the slide projectors, they had to take all their cues on their own. I had a foreign exchange student who didn't speak a lot of English, running the two scene preset lightboard, very old style lightboard. I would just have to tap her for the cues. And after that project, I was hooked. And I didn't stage anything else in, stage manage anything else in college, but I knew that that's what I wanted to do.
Ryan Paul
And so you, in college you were in, in graduate in drama.
Tanya Searle
I had a, my undergraduate degree is in English literature. I studied a lot of European literature and a lot of Shakespeare, and so that's what my degree is actually in. But I did take a lot of theater classes, but not the technical side so much, more of the dramatic literature kind of thing. So then, when I went to, after, after college, I decided I was going to move to Florida, which is where my mom and and stepdad had moved at that time, and I was going to be a stage manager at Disney. I had zero professional experience, but was delusional enough, and so I went down there. And of course, they said, "Are you out of your mind?" And so I went and worked at a law firm as a, not really a paralegal, I didn't have official paralegal training, but I worked for a real estate law firm for a while as a secretary, basically. And while I was in Orlando in the late '80s, I read an article in the newspaper that this Shakespeare Festival was starting up in Orlando that winter, and were looking for volunteers. So it was the very first season of the Orlando Shakespeare Festival in 1989. So I went and volunteered, and I was one of the few people that showed up. So I essentially ended up ASMing a show for them because I had had some experience and knew what I was doing, and so that was what I got to do, sort of my first professional gig. Although I didn't get paid, and I met a woman there who was their general manager, and she told me about a graduate program at the University of Alabama and the Alabama Shakespeare Festival that she knew about. So I applied, I ended up applying to that after my second season. I did a second season at Orlando in 1991. They waited 18 months because they shifted their schedule to the spring from the winter. And so in 1991, I went to graduate school and I got an MFA at the University of Alabama. I got in, and I got my MFA in stage management.
Ryan Paul
So, when when your parents, were your parents involved in community theater in England?
Tanya Searle
My mom had taken dance lessons and had been on stage and stuff as a kid. My dad wasn't involved in it at all. My stepdad was, but, in fact, that's where, and my stepmother was. That's where they all met each other, but, but but it was mostly through my mom's influence that I was involved in the arts.
Ryan Paul
And is being an actor the first thing you remember wanting to be as a kid?
Tanya Searle
Yes, yes, very much so.
Ryan Paul
So theater was a part of your of your life, not necessarily as a vocation, but as a as an avocation.
Tanya Searle
Yeah, absolutely. Since the time I since ever since I can remember.
Ryan Paul
So, what was it about stage managing that made you decide, this is it? The fact that you were nervous?
Tanya Searle
Yes, that was part of it. And, and that same professor who asked me to stage manage took me aside one day and said, "I'm not sure that acting is for you. You are a little too controlled. You know, you are a little too type A, I guess is the kind way to say it. You know, I couldn't have that sort of emotional, I, I didn't have that ability to access that kind of emotional release that an actor requires, but I'm very grateful to him for waking me up to that and also offering me this alternative in the world that I loved. I think the thing about stage management that spoke to me more than anything was that I got to do, it, it utilizes both sides of my brain. It's the creative side, because anybody who says a stage manager is not a creative contributor to a production is crazy, in my opinion, and but also the sort of type A, organized, loves a spreadsheet, control freak side of myself. So it marries those two things together in a beautiful way.
Ryan Paul
So Alabama, the, as, if I remember, if I recall that, Alabama Shakes is connected with the program you were in.
Tanya Searle
It used to be. It's no longer, but yes, back then it was.
Ryan Paul
So, so when when do you go from ASM to SM?
Tanya Searle
So I, after I graduated from grad school, I went to my first job out of grad school was at the Atlanta Ballet. I was an ASM at the Atlanta Ballet, and then after that, I had worked with a woman who was one of the equity stage managers while I was in graduate school, who had worked here, and she suggested I apply. And she knew the woman who was in my current job at the time, her name was Carey Lawless. And so I applied and got hired. As, in 19, this was 1994. I got hired as a production assistant for the summer, and Carrie ended up asking me to stay on and take over running the the backstage of one of the shows that year, which I was not scheduled or contracted to do. So I, I did that, and then I ran crew on on the other one, and then the next year she was hiring me back, kind of in the same position, but then she had one of the, this was before our stage managers here were members of equity. She called me up and said, "the stage manager has dropped out. I'm talking to a couple of people to see who will replace them," and she ended up picking me partly because it was, 1995 was the first year since the 70s, I think that we had done a musical here at Utah Shakes, and I had been working in opera, and we were also, they were also scheduled to do Othello, and I was doing Othello at Orlando Shakes that spring, so because I had done the shows, she picked me, and so that's how I ended up being a stage manager here. I had worked at, or I went back to Orlando Shakes as a stage manager that spring. That was my first like actual stage manager gig was at Orlando Shakes.
Ryan Paul
What was the play?
Tanya Searle
Twelfth Night.
Ryan Paul
Wow! Look at that.
Tanya Searle
Yep, we were doing Twelfth Night and the Scottish Play in Rep.
Ryan Paul
So, and that was your first, your first years. And, and a stage manager generally, I mean, in in the past, calls only one show, like you, or more?
Tanya Searle
It depends. Back back in the day at Orlando, we would, there were two of us, and we would swap. So I would call one show and ASM the other, and the other stage manager would do the same. So we would share responsibilities back and forth. That first season at Orlando, she was equity, I was not. And and then I ended up here and was calling two shows, so was doing Funny Thing Happened On the Way to the Forum and Othello at the same time.
Ryan Paul
So what's let's just, for our listeners, I mean, I'm sure we're familiar with actors and actors equity, and it's the same union. But how does that process happen? When how does a stage manager become an equity member?
Tanya Searle
In sometimes in a very similar way to to an actor, and it's, it works a little bit differently now than it did back then. They have different programs that allow faster paths to join. The way I got my card was I got my card through Orlando. The following summer was like 1996. They had hired me again as a non-equity stage manager. Was a new artistic director, he called the union to ask a question about something, and they said, "Hey, you're not allowed to have, under union rules, you're not allowed to have a non-equity person call a show." So they had to offer me my card because I was already contracted to do the gig, and it was up to me whether or not I wanted to take it. They were going to have to pay as if I were an equity member anyway, and so I went back and forth and back and forth. It would mean that I wouldn't be able to work here anymore because they weren't hiring equity stage managers here at the time. And so I, after a lot of deliberation and consideration, I decided to to take advantage of the opportunity. So for me, it was, because the opportunity just arose, and I was able to take it. You know, you can apply for union jobs, and they can hire you, and you can join or not, depends on the state where you live. But mine was sort of like, yeah, it's time. I've worked professionally enough that I'm confident that I can continue to get union work. Because once you get, once you become a member of Actors Equity, you cannot work outside the union anymore.
Ryan Paul
So what I, you know, I understand actors, you know, contractually if they're equity, they have to have certain times between shows, and and their lodging is different, and their dressing room responsibilities are different. What does that translate to stage managers?
Tanya Searle
It's a lot of the same thing. You know, when you're coming into a gig, the housing requirements are the same for stage managers that they are for an actor. It covers overtime rules, you know, what you can and can, what you can and cannot get paid for for overtime, the length of day you can work, how many hours a week you can work, the working conditions under which you work, base minimum salary rates, things like that.
Ryan Paul
How does that work with you being a full time? So I mean, we we should, I think everyone understands, but just to be clear, the Shakespeare Festival is is under the auspices of Southern Utah University.
Tanya Searle
Correct.
Ryan Paul
I mean, so technically, you and I actually are employees of SUU.
Tanya Searle
Correct.
Ryan Paul
Even though you were, although the festival, and correct me if I'm wrong, is an outlier in the sense that it has to raise its own budget, whereas you know my department doesn't have to do that.
Tanya Searle
Right.
Ryan Paul
So in a situation where you're getting compensated by the university, how does that tie in with equity?
Tanya Searle
I don't know if it works this way everywhere, and I'm not 100% clear, to be honest with you. But my understanding is that I am on a union, I am, I sign a union contract every summer for the show that I do, and the theater has to pay health and pension amounts like they would for any other member to the union, so that I'm covered for my health and care. My health care is provided through SUU now, but it goes into the pool, and and they pay, so they pay health and pension. I have to pay any dues that I, as a member, that I have to pay when I am working on a contract, but the salary comes from the university. So it's it's kind of what we call a ghost contract. It's, it's, you're on a union contract, but they're not paying the salary portion of it, they're paying all of the kind of outside parts.
Ryan Paul
It would be similar to where John DiAntonio, who gets compensated differently because he's an actor in a show versus his job as at SUU. So, are, what, what is the percentage of stage managers at the festival that are equity?
Tanya Searle
I have a staff of about, it's about a third. I have a staff of 15, and five of us are equity stage managers, including myself. And then there's one equity ASM, so we are required to have that number of equity members in the stage management staff.
Ryan Paul
Does the the equity ASM, when they become an SM does it change anything or do they have to apply differently or?
Tanya Searle
No it, it, the the rules for ASMs, and you know their job responsibilities as described in the collective bargaining agreement are slightly different, but they don't have to apply differently they can apply, some people are more interested in being an ASM and working backstage than being, you know, in, in, in the booth and calling the show, they're different skill sets, and some people prefer one over the other. This, the salary rates are usually a little bit different for an ASM versus an SM, but in terms of the application process, it's not really any different.
Ryan Paul
Cool. Let's, let's, I think this is a time for us to take our first break, and then I want to come back and talk about the mechanics of, of that kind of stuff.
Tanya Searle
Okay.
Ryan Paul
Is that okay? And, and I will also tell you as a, as a foreshadowing, as we're in the theater. I mean, not we're not in the theater, but we're talking about theater. That I the other thing that I find you is so multifaceted, is you have a degree in food studies.
Tanya Searle
I do.
Ryan Paul
So so later on we're going to talk about food.
Tanya Searle
Okay.
Ryan Paul
That okay?
Tanya Searle
Sure.
Ryan Paul
So those of you who've listened to the podcast or the radio show also know that we, instead of doing commercials, we ask our guests to select a list of songs, of which then Lauren and I choose which ones we'll play instead of commercials. And I recognize Tanya that that it's a challenging thing sometimes to to put this list together. I'm, I'm grateful that no one asks me to to do that, but you have given us a list of some pretty interesting songs, and is your list? Some people themed their lists; other people just like you know this is at the moment what I'm listening to. Do you have a theme to your list here?
Tanya Searle
I do. The general theme is songs that made me cry so hard I couldn't call the show.
Ryan Paul
Okay, so we're gonna we'll story behind each one of these. The song we're going to start with is from the great American musical, The Music Man, and the song you've given us is Gary, Indiana.
Tanya Searle
This is a funny one. I was doing a production of The Music Man, it's the only time I've ever done it, at Arizona Theater Company. David Ivers actually directed it and brought me in to stage manage, and there was a young man named Nate Wild who was playing Winthrop Paroo, who sings Gary Indiana in the show. Nate's a sweet, sweet young man, and I could not to this day explain to you. This song is not a tearjerker, the scene is not a tearjerker, but every single time. I think it was pride, like I was proud of him, burst into tears every time he sang this song.
Ryan Paul
Okay. This is Gary, Indiana from The Music Man.
Lauren Bird
That was Gary, Indiana from The Music Man. You're listening to the APEX Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
Ryan Paul
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with Tanya Searle. She is the festival stage manager and artistic associate here. We've been talking about stage management. One of the things I want to, she's also calling stage managing Something Rotten this this season in the Randall. So one of the things, before we we talk into the mechanics of this, is how do you, then, when do you become a full time employee? What is the decision process to say, I'm not going to be a seasonal worker anymore, but this is going to be my home?
Tanya Searle
Well, I've been lucky to have two artistic homes in my life. Alabama, I worked at as a stage manager for about 15 years. After I graduated, I went back in the late 90s and stayed there until 2011. And then Utah, and so I had been here seasonally a long time. When I was in my food studies program, I was coming here in the summer to help pay for school, and at that time, in 2017, just after that in 2017, the woman who was in this job before me decided to leave, and I got hired seasonally as the festival stage manager. And then over the course of that time, just before the pandemic, I had pitched to Brian Vaughn, who was the artistic director at the time, a job position as an as an associate because he was a one person artistic department, and Brian and I had known each other for a long time, and so I knew there wasn't money to fund the position, but I just kind of pitched it to him. And then in 2019, our production manager left, and I decided to apply for the production management position because I wanted to try to get to full time, and I went through that process, interviewing and and all that. I was a finalist along with Richard Girtain, who's our current production manager. Fortunately, smartly, they hired Richard, for that job. But what they did do is they decided that they wanted to keep me full time, and so they implemented that position that I had pitched a couple of years prior, and created the job for me, which I was very grateful for. So that's how I ended up being full time here. In, I started in January 1, 2020, so right before the world shut down.
Ryan Paul
Yeah, that's interesting to think about that. I mean, it speaks to your skills and your abilities that, that they said we're going to take both of you, you know, just in a different different capacity. But but you and Richard work pretty, I mean, very closely. Yeah, is a is a close close relationship that way. So let's talk about the process. Okay, so I have, as I said, I got to sit in the booth, but I've also see you when it's time for something rotten, pulling a big suitcase of you know with your your carry on luggage in into that room, and and out of that comes it's like the Pulp Fiction briefcase, right? You open it up and the light comes out, a a thick binder.
Tanya Searle
Yeah.
Ryan Paul
Is a is a close close relationship that way. So let's talk about the process. Okay, so I have, as I said, I got to sit in the booth, but I've also seen you, when it's time for Something Rotten, pulling a big suitcase of, you know with your your carry on luggage in, into that room, and, and out of that comes, it's like the Pulp Fiction briefcase, right? You open it up and the light comes out, a, a thick binder.
Tanya Searle
Yes.
Ryan Paul
What what is what's in that binder?
Tanya Searle
That binder is called the prompt book. It is for me. I am, shall we say, of a certain age, and so I prefer paper and pencil. A lot of more younger, more contemporary stage managers, the woman who's stage managing Frankenstein and The Book Club Play, for example, her prompt book is digital. She has an iPad, she has a tablet in her booth with her script on it. That makes me nervous. I'm afraid it's going to die in the middle of the show. So I prefer paper and pencil. So it's the script, and then I make a, what I, what we call a blocking page, which is basically a page with a little mini version of the of the ground plan of the show, the set of the show, and a bunch of empty lines. So it's, all through rehearsals, I'm taking blocking notes, so the staging of the show, I am notating. That's one of my primary jobs through rehearsal, so that we can remember what it is, and so that I can help maintain it once we establish the show and set it. And then once we get to the technical part, I get all of my cues, lighting cues, sound cues, scene shifts, from the variety of designers, and in collaboration with them through the rehearsal process, decide where those cues go. Where they happen during the show, where they get called. So all of those are notated in various ways in my prompt book.
Ryan Paul
So a lighting cue would be, at this moment the there's going to be a red light on this person, and and then that would say go, and you know what happened. Or a sound cue would be we need a "uga uga" at some point, and you would tell the person to do the "uga uga."
Tanya Searle
So a cue has several parts. It has the the abbreviation that tells you what kind of a cue it is. So for lighting, I use the letter L and the letter Q, LQ. A sound cue, would be the letter S and the letter Q. Every stage manager does it slightly differently, and then it has a number that's created by the designer to differentiate it from all the other cues. In the, and you know, you're running it in a computer, so there's a stack of cues in the computer that are each numbered individually, and then it has what we call a trigger, which is the event that makes you say the action, which is usually the word go. So I will say lights 21, and then when the trigger happens, I say go, and the board op or the crew person backstage or whomever it is that I'm cueing does their thing, pushes their button, moves their piece of scenery, whatever it is, on my cue.
Ryan Paul
So all of the scenery that's moving back and forth, it's not just like digital electronic stuff. I mean, the the crew, that are the black shirts, that are you know, moving in the the counter or flying in the the banner, that's all you too.
Tanya Searle
Yep, I'm cueing all of that. Even the digital electronic stuff, I am cueing. There's a computer, there's an automation computer. We have a lift in Something Rotten, there's a lift in the Engelstad, the slip stage in the Engelstad, the turntable in She Loves Me, are all run by automation computers that are programmed by Richard Girtain and. we have cue numbers for those too. Those are auto cues, automation cues, and so I call those, and the operator takes the cue on that as well, to make whatever that automated cue does happen.
Ryan Paul
So Something Rotten. Let's just say it's an evening performance starts at eight. What time do you start walking over to the theater?
Tanya Searle
My cast gets there so early that I have to get there early to put up the sign-in sheet, so that they have a sheet that I put on a call board, so that they, and they sign in when they arrive, so that I know they're there. So I have to beat them there. So I'm usually there by 6, 6:15. The crew, the backstage crew, is, the, the audio and electrics crew are there before that, doing microphone checks and audio system checks, speaker checks, lighting checks, all of that kind of stuff. They are usually there by 5:30 ish, 6o'clock. And the stage crew, the backstage crew, comes at 6:30 to start sweeping and mopping and setting up everything, all of the props backstage, and all of that stuff, so that they're done by 7o'clock when we open the stage up to the actors. The actors aren't officially called usually until half an hour before curtain time. Sometimes we have a thing we, where we have to do a fight call. Those are particularly happening in the Engelstad for the Shakespeare shows. Sometimes they they take more than 15 minutes, it depends on how many fights are in a show, and so they run through all of the fights. Or, we also have a lift in Something Rotten that we run, so they come early to do that. They're called a little bit early to do that, and then the official call for them all to get into costume is at 7:30 for an 8o'clock show.
Ryan Paul
The, the, well, so you get there at 6:15. You put up the clipboard so they can take attendance, right, to make sure, and then you have to go check that clipboard, right?
Tanya Searle
I do at the half hour call. I go and check and make sure that they're all there. I've left out the wardrobe and hair and makeup crews. They are also there early when all the folks are doing their setups, and you know ironing and putting everything in the dressing rooms. Because we do it in rep, we have to change over everything, so they're changing, you know, they've taken out the costumes from the from the matinee and they're putting in all the costumes for the evening show. So then at 7:30, I go downstairs and I collect valuables. So if anybody has, you know, their wedding ring or their cell phone or whatever they bring to this, we encourage them not to bring anything. And this cast is pretty good about not having anything. But I collect those and I just check in with everybody. How you doing? This is the kind of house we have today. This is what you should expect.
Ryan Paul
Where do you get that information from?
Tanya Searle
From the house managers, they check in with me just before the house opens at 7:30, and they tell me, this is how many tickets are sold to tonight. This is how you know we have a service animal in the house, and this is where they're sitting. We have this group, we have that group, so that I'm aware of any kind of instance, instances of emergency that might potentially happen. Sometimes you know when you have. Service animals in the house usually they're great, but sometimes they get reactive. So you just like to know. But so and then I call, I do what we call pre-show call. So I, I get over a cast call microphone that goes to the dressing room area backstage, and I say you have half an hour until the curtain, you have 15 minutes to the curtain, you have five minutes to places, and then I call places, which is at two minutes to curtain. So the actors all have to come up and be where they are for the start of the show, and the backstage crew confirms that they have them, and then we start.
Ryan Paul
So who in, in this? You get there at seven, whatever. I mean, you get there at six, and and the techs and all people are doing their stuff in the Randall Theater. It is closed to the audience, and then there's an official turnover of the house to the house managers.
Tanya Searle
Yes, at the half hour call.
Ryan Paul
And you just say it's yours.
Tanya Searle
Yes, on a radio.
Ryan Paul
And they, and then they have control of everything.
Tanya Searle
And then at at right at curtain time when they've loaded everybody in and everybody is seated and the lobby is empty, they turn it back over to me.
Ryan Paul
So the there is this kind of relationship between, it, it's like there's always somebody in control, right? Of, of everything, and then the house managers are reporting to you that, hey, we're going to be late,
Tanya Searle
Or yeah, we may, we need a couple extra minutes you know a group arrived late, or we have a ticketing issue, or we have, you know doesn't happen all that much they're really great about all of that stuff. We also have what we call late seating, so if somebody arrives late for whatever reason, we have preset queues where we, house management and the stage managers are, have already planned out where they happen, and so that we can scoot those people into their seats in a in a minimally disruptive manner.
Ryan Paul
So you you get in there, you lock yourself into your cockpit, your booth, and there's somebody else with, another board operator right?
Tanya Searle
Right. There are two people, there's two sides to the booth in the Randall. I have, to my right, I have Alex, who is our light board operator. So he is in charge of all of the lighting instruments and the fog effects and the haze effects and things like that. On the other side of the booth is Brad Carroll, who is our music director and conductor. And so he's running, he's conducting the show from back there, and he's also running all of the musical tracks from a computer in that booth, and then out in the front, in the back of the house, outside of the glass, is Krishna, who's what we call the A one, or the audio engineer who is mixing the show.
Ryan Paul
And so you are the one though commanding all those people.
Tanya Searle
Krishna is pretty independent. We don't communicate during the show, but yes.
Ryan Paul
And so, and I think it's interesting to note that, you know, we, we have this conversation in the Grove. Often people say, "Well, we used to do live orchestras," and and I don't think that's going to happen again for a while.
Tanya Searle
I would assume, but that's above my pay grade.
Ryan Paul
Mine too, but but you know, for a variety of reasons. But we still have a conductor.
Tanya Searle
We do.
Ryan Paul
So, so Brad Carroll is in the back on the other side of the booth, actually leading music and cueing actors.
Tanya Searle
Yes.
Ryan Paul
So I think that's a pretty cool thing to think about. So if we turn back, we could, does anyone ever knock on the window?
Tanya Searle
Sometimes. We had somebody do that last night. As a matter of fact,
Ryan Paul
While you were doing it?
Tanya Searle
Not while we were doing it. At intermission.
Ryan Paul
Okay. So you walk into this, this booth, and so I, I grew up in the 70s, and there was a show called Battlestar Galactica. Remember that? And I remember that one of the favorite things I always like to do is that I thought anyone could fly a Viper. So the Vipers were the X wings of Battlestar Galactica, right? And they had the same startup procedure. You got in the Viper, and it always showed the guy or the pilot flipping three switches, hitting three buttons, and pushing the turbo, and the Viper would take off down the launch tube, right? So when you walk into your Viper cockpit, do you, is it like, what are the buttons? How do you fire it up? How do you? I mean, I imagine like it's inside a submarine, you know, it's like,
Tanya Searle
It does look like that, particularly for the lighting console. He has like three computer monitors and two keyboards. I mean, it's, I joke that it's the the bridge of the Starship Enterprise. My, my personal stuff is not that extensive, but he has a lot. I mean, everything nowadays in in the electrics world, audio and, and lighting, is very technologically advanced. So there's a lot of computer power happening, and so he's controlling all the lights, and he can see all of what every lighting instrument is doing in any given cue on his computer screens. And what I control is my comm system. So I turn on the all the buttons so that my headset is talking, I'm talking to all the people I need to be talking to, and I have a screen now. This is the first year we've done it this way. I have a screen where I control the monitors so that the people backstage and in the lobby can hear the show. I turn those on and off, and I have four different camera shots on a television monitor that I can watch for the show. One is just a full stage shot. One is particularly focused on one side of the stage because I'm short and I can't see over a very tall soundboard, so they set up a camera for me, so I could see the part of the theater I can't see from the booth. I have one that's on the conductor because I take a lot of cues based on the conductor's downbeat, and and then one is in the pit for, we use the lift for Shakespeare, and so that I can see that he's safe getting onto it down in the basement of the theater.
Ryan Paul
So you call, when you say this, headset, is everyone who has a headset hearing? Like you can't control, I'm just going to talk to this one person. I can.
Tanya Searle
I could turn off. There's four channels. There's one for audio, one for electrics, one for the spotlights, and one for backstage for the stage crew. So I could turn off any one of those channels and only talk to the people who needed to hear the particular cues. For me, because the show is so busy, I just leave them all on all the time, and I never know what else. Like the crew may be saying, "Oh, she just called that light cue, so I know my cue is coming up," and using that as a cue for themselves. And so I just leave my, I turn my mic on and off when I'm not necessarily calling a show, calling a queue, so they don't have to listen to me constantly. Although this is a very busy show, but I could individually pick which channel I want to talk on.
Ryan Paul
So the the team here, the, the we, we understand the cast, right? But the the physical team that you're actually calling that, that is running the show while it is going. So you've got the person outside mixing. You've got Brad to your left, you've got, is it Alex to your right. You've got a couple people in the running spotlights.
Tanya Searle
We have three spotlight operators. They are taking their cues independently. They base them on, some of them are based on light cues, but they learn their track. I have been other theaters where I have actually called all of the spot cues as well as all the light cues. We don't tend to do that that way here. They take all of their cues independently based on the light cue numbers I'm calling. I also have Matt, who is our A two, who is the audio engineer that's backstage. So anytime anything goes wrong with somebody's body mic or something like that, he's the one who's physically dealing. And he and and Krishna, the A one, are in communication with each other all the time, over headset through a chat feature they have on their computers to talk to each other about those problems. I have an ASM and four stage crew. We have, I think, between hair and makeup and wardrobe, there are a dozen, if not more, crew members doing costume changes and helping actors get into and out of costumes. And of course, there's all the front of house staff, so it's a lot of people.
Ryan Paul
So I, you also see movies like that, are, you know today, by the way, Lauren, Neil Armstrong came back. Today is the day that Neil and Buzz and Michael Collins came back on 19th from the Moon, and I think about that in, in the whole idea of like a rocket launch, like a mission control. And the flight director, who would be you, you know, says, before they even launch, it's like okay, you know, guidance, go, flight surgeon, go flight. I mean, does that what happen, or do you, do you? I know you call places for the actors, but do you do you check in with these other people to say we're ready to go?
Tanya Searle
I do. They're hearing, they're hearing most of the calls. I get on headset about at the five minute to places call, so about seven minutes before the show. At five minutes before the show, I do a roll call with everybody who's on headset, just to make sure that we can hear each other effectively, that the headsets are working, and they all respond to me during the show. I do a standby for every series of cues so that they know what's coming up, and that they can get into place and are prepared for, and they respond to me. So if I say, except for Alex, because he's sitting right there and I can see that he's paying attention. So when I call a deck cue, which is a scene shift, a you know a sequence of of scene shifts, they respond with saying, if I say "stand by deck 15," they respond and say, "deck," so I know that they've heard me. If I call if I call a standby for a rail cue, same thing. They'll respond with rail, so I know that they're ready.
Ryan Paul
So is the is there like a pre flight checklist? You know how pilots have to go around and they, you know, they say okay, you know flaps down, flaps down. I mean, is, do you have a pre-show checklist that you go through?
Tanya Searle
That, I, I do for my side of things. That is, the on stage stuff is primarily the ASM's responsibility. So she has all kinds of preset paperwork that she works in tandem with the crew, and she goes through and and checks everything off to make sure that all the, all the props are set on the prop tables where they are. That the, they've checked the, we have a couple of sets of curtains, those have been run, she does a check to make sure the lift is operating properly, and the slip stage is operating properly, that the doors are revolving the way they're supposed to, and then she reports to me that her checks are complete, so all of that kind of on stage pre show stuff is mostly for her, is mostly Kathryn's responsibility.
Ryan Paul
Okay, so places have been called, right? It's 8o'clock, and you just, is there like, "let's have a good show," or "here we go," or?
Tanya Searle
I, the first thing I do, there's a door between my side of the booth and Brad's side of the booth, and it's open all through the half hour, and then right as after I've gotten the house and I've gotten confirmation of places, I lean into his side of the booth and I say, "You good to go?" And he says yes, and I close the door so that he knows that I'm ready to start. And then I get on headset. I say, "Have a great show, everybody." And then I stand by the top of the, whatever the cue numbers are for the top of the show, and then we go.
Ryan Paul
Lauren, Tanya called a show I was in once, and she, she did all that. And the last thing she said is, "Have a good show, everybody, except you, Ryan. You stink."
Tanya Searle
That is not true.
Ryan Paul
No, she didn't do that to me. Of course, you know it was my Yorick when I was Yorick.
Lauren Bird
Oh, of course, of course.
Ryan Paul
Yes, my, you know, who, Tanya saw my audition tape for Yorick too, and still didn't choose me. So, page one, page one of the binder now. 8o'clock. Have a good show. What is the num, what does number one say? Like, what? How does? How do we start? Push a button that says music, click?
Tanya Searle
I should have brought my book with me. I didn't know I was going to get a quiz. This is why I have a book.
Ryan Paul
The suspension on my van wouldn't have held the weight of that book. It's not rated a that.
Tanya Searle
So the first thing is is a light cue that takes the house to half, and then after that is a light cue and a sound cue that takes that starts the pre-show announcement, the recorded pre-show announcement.
Ryan Paul
By Stuart Shelley in the Randall.
Tanya Searle
Stewart Shelley, yes, and and then once that is complete, I have another light cue, 50 that takes us to a blackout, and then I wait two beats. I, with my hand, Brad is watching me through the, there's a glass window, I cue Brad to start the overture, and I take, I start my stopwatch app. It's an app actually, and I call the light cue that happens with the beginning of the overture.
Ryan Paul
And then do you cue say, okay, actor, go through that side door because,
Tanya Searle
I have a cue light that cues him. That cue it's actually cueing the crew person who opens the door for him. So we use a lot of, I don't use them a lot actually, in, in Something Rotten, but we do have what we call cue lights, which are literally little lights that we can use and, to cue actors or crew in a situation which they cannot see or hear whatever the trigger is on stage, so, because he's on a door that's, where there's no speakers to officially, to really hear the overture very well, he can't hear his cue musically, and so I cue him with the light.
Ryan Paul
And then it goes.
Tanya Searle
And then he goes.
Ryan Paul
And then your stopwatch is clicking, and you don't really stop the stopwatch until the show ends.
Tanya Searle
Until intermission, and then I so I have an app that does all the time, and we time every show. So I start it with the start of the overture. I stop it with the lights up for intermission.
Ryan Paul
All right.
Tanya Searle
And it starts counting how long intermission is, and then when intermission, when I start the entr'acte at the top of the second act, I start act two, and then at the end of bows, I stop it, and we get the timings for each act and the runtime for the show.
Ryan Paul
And at intermission, who who tells house management they've got five minutes left?
Tanya Searle
They are aware that once the they start their own watch, once the lights come up in the house, and they know they have 15 minutes, and then they are running their own watch and keeping track of time. I run lobby announcements based on, I can hear them over the radio saying, you know, they do their their five minute call a little ahead of actual five minutes to sort of get people moving. So I play the lobby announcement from the booth when they ask for five minutes, and so they're keeping track of that on their own, and then they just tell me when when everybody's back in and they're ready to go again.
Ryan Paul
It is a pretty cool thing, and I think we should let people know that you, you generally, as, you're the one divvying out house management or house management, stage management, manager assignments. You generally reserve the most complicated play for yourself.
Tanya Searle
I do, partly because I enjoy them, but also because I'm only doing one show. A lot of the other stage managers on my staff are doing two, and so it doesn't seem fair to give somebody the giant musical and a big complicated Shakespeare at the same time, so I try to manage the the workload of the people who are doing two. It's not always easy or possible, because a lot of our shows have a lot of complications. Shakespeare is a lot like a musical in many ways, but that's usually why I do it that way.
Ryan Paul
But you don't have, like if you're a stage manager, like you're not managing in the Engelstad and in the Randall.
Tanya Searle
Some are.
Ryan Paul
Oh, are they?
Tanya Searle
Caleb does. He has, he's stage managing See How They Run and Twelfth Night.
Ryan Paul
Okay, cool. I would imagine the procedures are fairly similar.
Tanya Searle
Fairly similar. I mean, they're very different spaces, and you know you have weather and stuff to deal with outside, but the procedures are very similar. Because our actors are also working across spaces, we try to keep a lot of that stuff the same as much as we can, show to show, space to space, so that they don't have to think about everything differently depending on the the whims of who is running that particular show that day.
Ryan Paul
And the booth is higher in the Engelstad.
Tanya Searle
Yeah, much higher.
Ryan Paul
All right, let's take our second break. This is a song that, that I, I have never heard before, and, and we've talked about this. It's a song called I Have Loved from a musical called,
Tanya Searle
It's a play with music.
Ryan Paul
Play with, okay. It's a
Lauren Bird
musical. A
Ryan Paul
A musical. which is a play with music, called Fair and Tender Ladies. So, can you tell us a little bit about, first of all, I don't think anybody really knows, I would be surprised if many people knew what this show was.
Tanya Searle
Well, I yeah, I would be too. Fair and Tender Ladies was a script that came out of Alabama Shakespeare Festival in the late '90s. It's based on an epistolary novel written by a woman named Lee Smith, who lived in Virginia, in the Appalachians, and it's the story of a woman named Ivy Rowe, and it starts when she's a child, and takes us through the end of her life, and it's all her, all of her letters, and this and there's a program at Alabama, which is our, their equivalent of what we call Words Cubed, which is their new play program. It's called the Southern Writers Project, and someone named Eric Schmiedl adapted the script the book into a script, and I did, I stage managed the world premiere of it in 1997, and it was one of those special, very special theatrical experiences for a lot of reasons. But the show is really beautiful, and it's this, and Ivy is an incredible character, played by, at that time an incredible performer named Greta Lambert, who I admire greatly. And this song is the final song of the show. She's at the end of her life, and, and it's talking about a lot of the experiences she's had through her life that we have witnessed in the play. But the lyrics made me cry every single time. And at closing, people loved this show. The people in the building loved this show, and we were doing it in our small theater. And on closing of this particular run, the booth was full of people who wanted to watch the end of the play because you couldn't get a ticket. And I was panicking because I was like, now all of these people are going to witness my snot sobs as I'm trying to call the end of this play on closing of it, and they got to, and it was fine. But you know, it was just one of those, it's, it's, this song really moves me to this day. This particular version is not, there was no cast album. The show has not been published to my knowledge, which is why it's not, rarely done anywhere. This is the composers. There were three people who composed the music for it, and this is one of, the person who wrote the song, singing it on the on the CD that I have, which is why it's a male voice instead of a female voice. But to have this sentiment that Ivy has at the end of her life is just something I aspire to.
Ryan Paul
Okay, this is I Have Loved from Fair and Tender Ladies.
Lauren Bird
That was I Have Loved from Fair and Tender Ladies. You're listening to the APEX Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
Ryan Paul
Thank you, Lauren. We're here with Tanya Searle. She's the festival stage manager and artistic associate here at the festival. She is stage managing Something Rotten, and, among many other brilliant things. So let's talk about, I'm interested in your career as a stage manager so far. What, what are some of the things that you have seen change over time? For the, I mean, obviously technology's changed, but has there been anything that has been a real godsend in stage managing?
Tanya Searle
Email. When I first started at Alabama, we would have to do the the daily rehearsal schedule on a answering machine. We'd record it on an answering machine, and so if you messed up, you'd have to go all the way back to the beginning and start over. And there was no way then to sort of send out everybody's individual calls by email like we do now. And it would, it just makes communication so much simpler and more straightforward. We're not killing as many trees. That was always the joke, was that stage managers were tree killers because we created a lot of paper. When I first started here, every Saturday, we still do distribution Saturdays, but every at the end of every rehearsal week on Saturday night, we would send out updated paperwork for all of the shows, and you know you're doing 6, 7, 8, shows at a time. And so when you had hard copies of everything that you would have to put in everybody's mailboxes, the stack of paper would be, you know, two feet tall. And we don't have that anymore. We just, we don't do hard copies. You you can print it yourself if you want to, but we just email everything, and we have we use Google Drive to to share information. And Zoom has made production meetings easier for people to attend, and you know, the digital auditions make that more equitable. You don't have to be able to get to New York or Los Angeles in order to be seen by a theater anymore. You can do a self tape. It has its pluses and its minuses, right? Being in the room is always probably better. But if you live in the middle of nowhere and you have aspirations to work, you can still send people your material, which I think is a great thing.
Ryan Paul
It also helps with financial equity too, right?
Tanya Searle
Yeah.
Ryan Paul
You can get where you need to be.
Tanya Searle
Yeah.
Ryan Paul
You know. So every day, your one of your team sends out an email, or maybe the day before, that says, tomorrow, here's, you know, this is when call time is, and, and that, I would imagine that email or that, that daily blast is much more lengthy in the preseason.
Tanya Searle
It's, it's, it's much lengthier in May and June when we're in rehearsal and tech than it is now when we're all open and up and running.
Ryan Paul
Because that email would say call time is this.
Tanya Searle
So the way it works is I have, I have a unique situation, and we couldn't operate the way we do without this person. I have a scheduler. Her name is Mykel Marie Hall. This year, it's again it's a seasonal position. This is Mykel's second year doing it, but Mykel has been in other positions here before, and so each stage manager of each show works with their director to develop a call of what that director wants to accomplish in their primary rehearsal block that day. So each show has primary rehearsal blocks on any given day, and they rotate through those shows. So we have two rehearsal blocks a day, one in the afternoon and one in the evening, of four hours each. And so, and so the shows rotate. So every third block, we do you know, afternoon, evening, afternoon, and then it starts over. So every day by noon, by noon, the stage manager has to turn into Mykel their list, their call of what that director wants to do with that primary rehearsal that day, and then the costume shop sends Mykel on a different spreadsheet all of the people they want to see for fittings that day for what show and how long, hair and makeup does the same thing for wig fittings, voice and speech coaches send her, we have Google forms for all of this, send her who they want to see for their sessions. Dramaturgs sometimes want to see people, and then stage managers have, create, have input on a separate form if we have, we call them secondary rehearsals. So, if an actor is not called for a particular day, and we have this group of people that we can get together for half an hour, we want to rehearse the balcony scene if they're free, you know, outside of the regular primary rehearsal time. So, Mykel takes has a giant spreadsheet on the computer with, that's divided into 15 minute blocks, and has everybody involved in everything. All of the actors, the production staff, directors, stage management, everybody, and she just fills out that sheet every day. It takes a full eight hours to do, and she first puts in all of the daily calls that have come from the stage managers, and then she puts in all of the fittings based on when people are available, and union rules, and all of that kind of stuff, and then she puts in all the rest of it and figures out everybody's schedule for the whole day, edits all of those originals calls she got from people, creates a separate call for all of the fittings, and then emails that out and posts it around on call boards all over campus. By about, in, in rehearsal and tech, it takes sometimes till about 8, 9o'clock at night for her to do that, she starts at noon. So that's how that scheduling system works here. And if each of our show stage managers had to do, if we had to figure out all of, you know, 30 fittings after the end of our rehearsal day, we'd never go home. Which is, you know, it's a little frustrating sometimes for people who haven't worked this way because we're asking directors to to decide what they want to do before they've even had rehearsal for that day. So if they get behind that day and they don't get everything done, sorry, we've already decided what your schedule for tomorrow is. You have to wait two, two rehearsal blocks before you can get back to those things you you didn't get to, which can be frustrating. But it helps us keep on schedule, and we just have to do it that way in order to do as extensive a rep as we do.
Ryan Paul
So when the season opens and the Anes finally is open, Mykel is a little happier.
Tanya Searle
A little happier. I give her projects to do. She's got a big calendaring project she's working on for me right now. But there's still haircuts. You know, people get regular haircuts to maintain the look of the show. We have to fit and make sure we know what, if anybody is an understudy and they're going to go on, what they can wear. So there's all bunch. We have understudy fittings. We have understudy rehearsals that are we've just, are still going on. Actually, the Anes ones are at the end of this week. You know we've got RADA coming next week, we've got Words Cubed happening in August, so there's always something going on that she's scheduling. Actors can sign out rehearsal spaces for self tapes, and she's in charge of make giving them access to the understudy videos for their understudy training, so she's got plenty to do. It's just not the active, busy scheduling time in the same way.
Ryan Paul
So, what happens when somebody calls and says, "Hey, I'm not feeling well."
Tanya Searle
Panic. No, it depends on the timing and the situation.
Ryan Paul
And the role?
Tanya Searle
And the role. Almost all of our roles are understudied, so I had an instance a couple of weeks ago, where an actor got hurt towards the end of a show. This was on a Thursday night. The timing was fortuitous, not for him, of course. I wish he hadn't gotten hurt, but he the next, he's in both musicals, in the ensemble of both musicals. We had our first onstage understudy rehearsal for both musicals that weekend, so we were able to turn them sort of into what we call a put-in rehearsal, where we're kind of working with the understudy and and the rest of the cast and figuring out how they can work into the show. So we got more rehearsal time than we might have normally, and then, you know that costumes has already had a plan for what his understudy could wear. His understudy was well prepared, and we put them on, and they did great.
Ryan Paul
And the there there also are times when in an actor's contract, when they say, yes, I'll come do this role, but I have to be gone for my cousin's wedding on this week, and those are easier. Or, if you know what's coming.
Tanya Searle
If you know what's coming, it's a little easier. We try not to let that happen as much as we can. It has to be an extraordinary circumstance. Usually, it's only illness or bereavement that we're like really, but there are certain union clauses that that allow for things like that, and you know it's always easier when you have more time to plan and you can do a full put in rehearsal. But you know, 2022 was a crazy year for us post COVID, and I think we had something like 135 instances of understudies going on over the course of the season. And so we did, you know, we did people sitting in the moat reading from a script because we hadn't had understudy rehearsal yet, and it wasn't safe to put them literally on stage. We had a concert version of Sweeney Todd where they all just sat in chairs and stands and sang. So we've, we've and then we've, everything up to you know, you would never know that it was an understudy. So it just depends on the situation. Sometimes I don't have time to get people into a rehearsal. I just call the understudy and say, "Hey, you're going on," and then we have an official email group that we send out to, so that everybody knows that it's happening. And you do as much as you can with them in the half hour before, half hour. But because of our schedule and changeovers, there's not a whole lot of time you could just get on stage to work because there's another show going on, and so you do what, the best you can and make sure people are as prepared as they can be. We have, you know, official on stage understudy rehearsals. I just had my second one this week for Something Rotten, and they did great. So it's always a little bit of a panic situation, but the interesting thing about putting an understudy on is it also really energizes the cast because they have to pay, you know, especially if you've been in a long run, you're now all of a sudden on pins and needles again. It's like opening again. You're looking out for your fellow cast member because we call it "shove with love." You know, you don't, they don't know where they're going 100% all of the time, maybe, and they've got adrenaline coursing through their veins, and that's going to mess them up. And so, it can make a show really great when an understudy goes on. I should say that and turn around three times and spit, but but yeah, it's it's an interesting process, and it just very much depends on how who it is and how you find out.
Ryan Paul
So let's talk about the artistic associate part. And you mentioned that this is a role that was created to help the artistic director. At one time, we had,
Tanya Searle
We had two.
Ryan Paul
Two, and then that, since have one, which is you, and, and that is a role to help with casting and all the things that an artistic director would need help with, because they're doing lots of things.
Tanya Searle
And I serve as a sounding board sometimes too. You know, just so they can have somebody to run something by out loud.
Ryan Paul
So let's run through the planning of a season, and, and and the logistics of, of what casting looks like, and, and, and the timeline. So we we plan two years ahead, right? So we announced 2027, 2028 is being discussed.
Tanya Searle
Not quite yet, but, we're still in 2027 at the moment. We are in the process now of the season has been chosen, and the plays have been selected and licensed, and all of that stuff. But we are in the process of hiring directors, designers, other lead staff, so that we can hopefully start having early design meetings in August.
Ryan Paul
Okay, so let's, let's, just for the sake of grins, whatever, we, we're ahead. You and John sit down and, and in the matrix of, of season planning of what you guys want to do, he sits down with you when you bounce titles off each other.
Tanya Searle
Not, sometimes. More often than not, with John, he has an idea of a season in his head, or or several versions of a season in his head, because of various and sundry plays that he's interested, or things he wants, stories he wants to tell, things he wants to accomplish, things he thinks that our audiences will enjoy. And so he often will come to us with those ideas already, sort of like, here's, here's three or four different, or here's a list of a bunch of different things that I want to think about for the Engelstad. Here's why, here's what they accomplish, and then we sort of have a conversation about that. So often it starts with him and is narrowed down by him, and then he and I, or he and I and Richard, or senior staff, or a smaller group of people will start to have conversations about what what excites us, what doesn't excite us, and then we slowly bring in more and more people into those conversations as we narrow it down.
Ryan Paul
And then, Shakespeare is relatively easy in the sense that you can do it, and no one you don't have to ask anybody permission.
Tanya Searle
Correct.
Ryan Paul
To do that show.
Tanya Searle
Correct.
Ryan Paul
So he says, I, you all decide, this is that, but there are five of our nine shows or seven of our nine shows that we need to get licensing for. What happens then?
Tanya Searle
Kami, Paul, our general manager, who you know very well, she will reach out to the licensing agencies to check on the titles that John has sent her that he is interested in to see what's available and what is not. And so they usually get back to us pretty quickly, and we'll know, oh, we can't do that musical because it's going to go on tour, so they've pulled the licensing from it, or whatever the reason might be.
Ryan Paul
And so, does that happen often? That he says these are the shows I want, and it comes back and says, "Well, we can't do.
Tanya Searle
It happens sometimes. You know, there are a lot of musicals that are, I think musicals in particular, that are on out on tour, are very, very popular and are done a lot around the the region, and so you're limited based on, you know, if somebody else in the region is doing it, you're probably not going to be able to get a license for it, or you're not going to want to do it because somebody else in the region is also doing it. So it does have some impact on decision making.
Ryan Paul
So okay, plays are licensed. You've got the plays, that, that discussion has happened, and that happens very first. Obviously, you have to decide what what's gonna happen.
Tanya Searle
The, the play selection and the calendar often happen kind of in tandem. John likes to work, I think, from titles first, but very shortly thereafter, the calendar becomes part of the question, which is mostly where I come into the equation, because the calendar has not been the same every year since we moved into the Beverly Center. It's been a little bit different every year, and it depends on what the shows are, and it depends on what kind of goals we're trying to achieve, either financially or artistically, and how we're going to shape the calendar around those shows.
Ryan Paul
When you say calendar, you're also talking about what shows are going to run in in in tandem. Like Troilus is going to run next to Something Rotten, so we can't have the same people in that.
Tanya Searle
Right, and so I create not only a calendar, but I create what we call a casting matrix, which is, if you're in the, if an actor is in this show, these are the shows they could be in, in addition to that one, and these are the shows they couldn't be in. It doesn't mean they're going to be in all of those, but these are the ones you get to pick from. There are other factors that that affect that choice, so, so, that we also, you know, we don't want, if you've got two shows with huge casts, you don't want them to play at the same time because then you've got, and you the needs of the of the total acting company are huge. So you want to kind of make sure you're making sense of the total numbers as well as the individual show numbers. We also talk about like, I think we could do the show with 18 people, even though we maybe want to do it with 20. You know, so so those kinds of discussions are part of that too.
Ryan Paul
One of my favorite photos of festival history is a photo of the, the, a chalkboard with the cast, it's like Fred standing on one side and with a piece of chalk, and a couple of the people are sitting on the floor and they're looking at this chalkboard that has that cast, but it's all written in chalk, right? With eraser marks where they've had to move people around, and, and I will tell you this, Lauren, that one of the great challenges of my life is when I saw the casting matrix and they put everybody in, and and there was 1, 1, 1 name that didn't fit in any of the shows, and it was Ryan Paul.
Tanya Searle
When I first started here in the mid '90s, before we were LORT Theater, we used to do casting at the top of the season. So the handful, four or five equity actors that we would hire under an ERDA contract, which was an academic-based contract back then, were already cast in their roles, but everybody else, they would cast a company, and then all of these actors would come here, and we'd spend a weekend on the Adams stage with them, effectively auditioning for the directors in person, and then stage management and directors would sit in a room, hashing out who was going to be in what show, like literally the weekend before rehearsals started.
Ryan Paul
What is what's LORT?
Tanya Searle
LORT is the League of Resident Theaters. It's an equity designation. It's a one of the CBAs that we that we use. It's most what most larger regional theaters operate.
Ryan Paul
And their rules say you have to cast people, you can't do.
Tanya Searle
We can't do it that way anymore, no.
Ryan Paul
So you've got the the plays selected, the calendar is is built, and this would be in what?
Tanya Searle
December, January of the of the previous year.
Ryan Paul
Of a year and a half before that summer event, right?
Tanya Searle
Right.
Ryan Paul
So then, what comes next?
Tanya Searle
Lots of drafts of a different, of calendars, usually, lots of meetings, lots of drafts of the season. You know, moving things around. We were even making some changes to next year, you know, in the spring because of, you know, licensing becoming unavailable all of a sudden. You know, things like that happen. You have a flood, and you have to change from West Side Story to Romeo and Juliet, you know things happen. But, so there's lots and lots of meetings, and and I have stacks and stacks of different, slightly different versions of the of a calendar, moving things around a little bit until we finally settle on okay, this is where we're going to start, and then we go, we send that that season and the scripts and that calendar to all of the departments, and we start the budgeting process. And so every department goes through and says, "Okay, based on this season, based on these plays and this calendar, this is what I think our budget's going to be, and our revenue is going to be," like how much we need to spend and how much we need to make, and, and then again, lots more meetings, lots more compromise. Sometimes titles have to change because we can't afford to do them, or we, you know, or vice versa.
Ryan Paul
We do it with 15 instead of 18.
Tanya Searle
Yeah, exactly. So then we go through the budgeting process usually in January, February, and then the the all of that has to get approved by the president of the university and the board, and and then once that happens, then we start planning and hiring lead staff, all of all of that stuff.
Ryan Paul
Lead staff would be directors, directors, designers,
Tanya Searle
Music directors, choreographers, voice and speech coaches, dramaturgs, fight directors,
Ryan Paul
And are those hirings? You know, John, I mean, he, he just says, "I want this person," and then asks them, or or how does that?
Tanya Searle
It varies. There, there's some of that. Like you know, when somebody returns, it's often that kind of a process. But he will often bring Richard and I in to have a conversation with that person if he feels it's necessary or helpful to explain the context of the things that we deal with, the calendar and and production and that kind of thing, and often sometimes it's more of an interview process. He'll talk to, you know, we'll give suggestions of people we know, or he'll get it from from other people, or people in his network, or people who have reached out to him, directors who have reached out to him say, I'm interested in directing at the festival, and and it's an interview process, right? He, he has a lot of Zoom meetings with a lot of people, and then kind of narrows it down and and goes from there.
Ryan Paul
And then, how does casting work?
Tanya Searle
So we are starting to work on casting for next season, already. Right now we just start, we just started having those conversations. So the union agreements require us to do certain things around casting, and then for the non-union performers, we have our own processes that we use, and so we will usually in August post on our website and on the union, and send out to the union the notice and the breakdown for all of the roles that are available for the season, and and then we'll have live in-person auditions in Los Angeles and Cedar City in September, sometime, and then we open up for video submissions once those live auditions have happened. That's usually in late September, early October, and then we spend November, December watching a bunch of audition submissions on video and consolidate, making charts and consolidating lists, and then deciding who we're going to reach out to for callbacks, which we do pretty much exclusively now through self tapes, so actors send us videos. We send them the the general auditions. You know they can pick whatever monologue. We ask for a Shakespeare monologue and something else, usually depending on whether it's for the musical or not, and um, and then we ask for show specific pieces for when we call give somebody a callback. So like a second round of auditions, and then we share that info. We have, John and I have lots and lots of conversations. We have a a spreadsheet that we fill out with, you know, we think this person can play this part and this part and this part and you know and then we like to try to make initial offers to everybody by the beginning of January because it takes some time to process when you make an offer to an actor, especially if they have an agent, it can go, it can take several weeks for that process to happen, and Kami handles those negotiations so that we don't have to deal with that that side of it. And and then we get a cast. So it's in conversation. Final decisions are always made by John because we, because we operate in rep, we are having to serve multiple shows with one actor, and so directors always have people that they prefer to work with. But don't we all? So he takes that into consideration, but he can't always accommodate all of those requests.
Ryan Paul
Yeah, I prefer to work with you, Lauren, so you know. Well,
Lauren Bird
Thank you.
Ryan Paul
So I'm just letting you know, and I prefer to work with you too.
Tanya Searle
Thanks.
Ryan Paul
So I, and it's important, I think, to note that the, the reason that, that this has to happen is because I think the festival wants to announce the next year's season at the beginning of the season currently. So, if I'm here in 2026, I want to buy tickets to the plays, even though they're not designed or cast or anything else, I want, I want them to be, while they're on site to say, "Oh, I loved, I love Something Rotten. I absolutely want to see,"
Tanya Searle
The Drowsy Chaperone.
Ryan Paul
The Drowsy Chaperone. So, okay. So also before we move for our break, I also think it's important to note that there is a, I think you and John, or maybe John, but I know you and John sometimes, probably mostly John, do exit interviews, and what does that entail?
Tanya Searle
So we try to do a lot of them, and I think the individual departments do it in their own way as well. I do them with my stage managers, for example, but with the directors, Richard, Richard deals with designers primarily and does exit interviews with designers. But with lead staff, directors, choreographers, voice and speech people, dramaturgs, John and I will sit down for a half an hour, and we do this with actors too. At the end of their time here, as they're getting ready to leave, and we just sort of, we don't really have an agenda with the actors. We send them a Google form that asks certain questions that we can respond to or get additional feedback on. We ask them to fill that out before they leave, before they meet with us. But just to sort of get feedback about you know what what worked, what didn't work, what they liked, what they didn't like, any problems that they had that we might not have been aware of, things that they were like, yes, that's great, keep doing that, or things that are like, you know, you might want to think about doing something different here. Some of them we can incorporate, and some of them, because of the complexity of what we do and people not always having a full context, we can't. But we like to at least hear what they are.
Ryan Paul
And, and there are people who respond well to that process, and, and I would imagine that just like in every job, there are people who say, I you know that in your mind I want to work with you again, or like yeah you're not coming back.
Tanya Searle
We don't really give feedback to the actor.
Ryan Paul
B in your mind,
Tanya Searle
Yeah. Oh, I mean. You know, sometimes we're lucky, and John is very good about cultivating this. He, he has a one-on-one with the entire acting company over Zoom before we start rehearsals, and he will sometimes do reference checks before we hire somebody if it's somebody we don't know who has never, or you know he doesn't know, that we've never worked with before, because it's, the process is as important to him as the product, and so we want, you know a company across the board, not just in the acting company, but everywhere that are good humans as well as great artists.
Ryan Paul
I think it's interesting that in the, in my years here, been doing this for 15 years at the festival, that, that the last few years, these seasons have really hit pretty solidly, right? I mean, it's, it's been a really serendipitous. I mean, there was a time, of course, where we had the same actors coming back year after year after year, which is fine. But, and we, we do that, I guess, now. But it really is a collection of these amazing people, and these shows are are really, really, I think hitting hard and, and I had this conversation with John the other day about, you know there's the idea of, of, I would imagine you have to at some point say this show is going to go right versus, I know at the artistic stance like, well we could do this better, we could always do this better, but at some point, if the audience buying the ticket is really happy then it's good.
Tanya Searle
Yes, that's true. I mean, I think we all always feel artistically like, oh, I wish we had more time. We could have done this. We could have done that. You know, there's always going to be some of that, and I think it's like water. It's going to fill the container that you have, you know. There's, you, we could double the amount of rehearsal and tech time we have and still feel that way, probably. But I think the joy and the collaboration and the spirit of the place is felt in the rehearsal room, and that is reflected on our stages. And I think that's part of the reason that you're seeing that. I know from my the ensemble of, in particular of Something Rotten, who are also primarily the ensemble in She Loves Me, are, I mean, the principals are great too. I don't want to dismiss them, but this ensemble is so kind and generous and supportive of each other, and in a way that I have very rarely witnessed, and I'm so grateful to be a part of, and it is reflected in what you see on the stage from them.
Ryan Paul
And and there is, I mean, I would imagine that there are some shows when you, I mean, what's the last cue you generally give? Like, as a play ends, do you say lights up, or what? What's the last? We talked about what's number one. What's number 5000?
Tanya Searle
The last cue is calling the house lights back up at the end of the show, and then I wait a few minutes for everybody from backstage. I thank everybody on headset immediately. "Great show, everybody! Thank you very much." And I get on the cast call again, and I say thank you, and I tell them what their next show is, and when we do this one again, and and then I go down and afterwards, and I give any notes that I have for the actors. I give any notes, and then I go back to the office with Kathryn, and we write up our report.
Ryan Paul
So I would imagine that there have been shows when, that, you know, when the season ends and the show is, that last, like, thanks everybody. There have been some that have been, oh man I'm glad that's over, and there's probably some that's been like, I really wish we could keep going.
Tanya Searle
Yeah, absolutely. I mean you know I'm sure that's true for anybody in any job, but the great thing about theater is that there's always the next thing, right? I mean I've never worked on Broadway on like a, you know, a long, long, long run of something where it's the same thing, or a big long tour, where it's the same thing for two years. I've mostly worked in the regional theater, where, you know, we have long runs here compared to a lot of regional theaters, but if, if this play isn't, if, or this show isn't an ideal situation for you, the next one is just around the corner, and that's great. And every, and every day is different. Even it's, the same show every, every day is different in some way.
Ryan Paul
Beautiful. Let's take our next break, our our final break. This is a song that that you have given us called Sue Me.
Tanya Searle
Oh.
Ryan Paul
From the American classic, Guys and Dolls. Why did you choose this song?
Tanya Searle
Again, teary. We did Guys and Dolls here in 2017, 2018. I can't remember. They all mush together eventually. And was playing Adelaide, and Quinn Mattfeld was playing Nathan Detroit, which are the two people who are in this song. And Sue Me is often, that was my second Guys and Dolls, my first one was actually with Chris Mixon playing Nathan Detroit, and Sue Me is often just treated as a comic song because these two are the kind of clowny characters. They're not the romantic leads of the show, and the way Melinda and the, and Quinn and the director approached this song was so honest and so real of a couple who had been together for a very long time and really loved each other, but were struggling in the moment to get what they needed from each other, and it was not a send up at all. It was a really lovely conversation about an adult mature relationship, and it was just beautiful, and it was really moving and and funny too. But in a way that I had never seen that song done before, and so I just found it really moving.
Ryan Paul
Okay, this is Sue Me from Guys and Dolls.
Lauren Bird
That was Sue Me from Guys and Dolls. You're listening to the APEX Radio Hour Utah Shakespeare Festival Edition. I'll turn it back to you, Ryan.
Ryan Paul
Thank you, Lauren. We've been talking with Tanya Searle, she's the festival stage manager and artistic associate here. We've been talking about stage management and season planning and calendaring and all the other fun stuff. And before we get to, this is one of those things where, and this doesn't happen to me that often, where I wish I, we had, I mean, I could talk with you more about this next subject. We could do a whole podcast on on what comes next. Maybe we should bring Tanya onto the APEX Radio Hour during the semester and have a conversation about this, but very quickly, before we turn to the joy section, I want to talk about food.
Tanya Searle
Okay.
Ryan Paul
So, for, for reasons that we'll let people read on the internet, you decide to get a degree in food studies, and you and I have talked about this because I'm fascinated by the history and the culture of of food in America specifically. But can you give me, or will you give me, three things that you find fascinating about the study of food and food culture?
Tanya Searle
Well, the program the program that I went through was very systems based, right? So it took, it's looking at the entire the entire system of food in America, from, from production through consumption, cuisine, culture, sustainability, policy, politics, nutrition, all of the labor, all of those kinds of things, and I think that, it's been a while since I graduated, and and Alice Julier, forgive me for butchering all of this, but the thing that is fascinating to me is, you know, even though I didn't end up in food studies, which was what my original goal, was to to change to do a career shift, I ended, theater pulled me back in, I use what I learned in that program every day. I look at the work we do as artists differently than I did before I took those classes, and it's been really interesting post COVID to see that really come to the fore in terms of the way people think about the work of the arts and the labor around the arts and the, invisible labor was a concept I had never heard of before food studies. And so I'm not really answering your question, but, but I, but I think the, the thing that I find the most fascinating is that this is a whole system of operations of things that, of something that is central to everybody's life, that most of us take completely for granted, that we don't really think about in a concrete way. Maybe more than we used to, now that things are kind of more expensive than they used to be, but, but, but that a lot of the labor that goes into it is something that we don't even consider, and how policy around food affects everyday people's lives, And that, in many many ways, the way we frame and think about work in the arts is similar to the way we think about, to, way historically people have thought about and framed work in food as a, as a luxury, as an extra, as something that's sort of like, oh, aren't you so lucky you get to go do that? And not in the sort of, which is on some level true, but in the concrete important ways that people's lives are changed by that work.
Ryan Paul
Yeah, that's that answers my question. You gave me three things. I think it's, it's a, it's and it's more than just the cost of food. Like we look at the cost of food is the big issue, but in reality, there are lots of things that that are critical beyond just that, beyond just the economics of it.
Tanya Searle
Yeah, and and the history of it, and the way food has been, you know, like this is right up your alley. The whole work progress administrate, you know, the WPA projects around food were fascinating to me.
Ryan Paul
So, cool. Well, for those of you who've listened to the podcast before, we know we, you know the last thing we talk about is what's bringing us joy. So before I say thank you to you, I'm going to ask you. Tanya Searle, what are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
Tanya Searle
Um, two things. Because of this podcast, I have started rereading Fair and Tender Ladies the novel, which I haven't done in a while, which is great, and it's so much fun to revisit. And my comfort show right now, speaking of food, is the Great British Baking Show. I just have it on repeat. I've watched it a million times, but I just love it. So,
Ryan Paul
And they're so nice to each other.
Tanya Searle
That's why I love it.
Ryan Paul
I mean, it's unlike, they just, they just seem to like each other.
Tanya Searle
Yeah, and it feels like a competition show where the the competitors are set up for success instead of, you know, given an impossible set of circumstances.
Ryan Paul
Yeah.
Tanya Searle
For the, for the most part.
Ryan Paul
Yeah, very cool. Lauren Bird. What are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that is bringing you joy?
Lauren Bird
So I've been waiting for this for months, basically like since it was announced. But there's a musical of the, like '80s movie, The Lost Boys on Broadway right now, and I've been waiting for the music to come out so I could like listen to it. I've been finding a bunch of clips that I can on Instagram, and I've been really excited. And it just got released last night, so that's what I was listening to the whole drive up. It was amazing.
Ryan Paul
I remember seeing Lost Boys in the theater, the movie. Have you seen the movie?
Lauren Bird
I have. I finally did. My mom, my aunt, and my cousin have been talking about it like for years, and then I finally made my mom watch it with me, and it was delightful.
Ryan Paul
Yeah.
Lauren Bird
I had a good time..
Ryan Paul
With your mom?
Lauren Bird
Yeah.
Ryan Paul
Wow.
Lauren Bird
Yeah, it was really fun.
Ryan Paul
Lola is an amazing woman.
Lauren Bird
I love her. She's great.
Ryan Paul
I often watch those movies with my kids, the the ones that I grew up with, and it was like, oh, I don't remember that. I don't remember that happening. I don't remember.
Lauren Bird
Fair. What about you, Ryan? What are you currently watching, reading, listening to, or playing that's bringing you joy?
Ryan Paul
I am excited about what I just saw yesterday, and, and we will keep the sanctity of the podcast confessional, and none of us will tell Kami, because by the time we all know, but by the time this will happen, this is edited, it'll be too late, so we'll already be on the moon. So I am excited because Lego just announced that they are producing a set of the bridge of the Starship Enterprise.
Tanya Searle
Wow.
Lauren Bird
Nice.
Ryan Paul
The Captain Kirk with minifigs, Kirk and Spock and Uhura and Bones. So not not, I mean, they they already have the Next Generation Enterprise, the big one, but, but this is a smaller version. But it's a Lego model of the bridge that has an included transporter room that you can put in and out. And I already pre-ordered it.
Tanya Searle
Oh my goodness.
Lauren Bird
Cool, cool.
Ryan Paul
So not that Kami would be mad, but I'm excited about, as both of you know, Legos are my, that's how I recharge. I just, it's it's fascinating to me to watch that,
Lauren Bird
Legos are the best.
Ryan Paul
Structure build. But, but the, the, which, I grew up, my mom was an emergency department nurse and loved the original Star Trek. Like that was her big thing. And we knew that when she came home from work, there was a 30-minute, like you did not bother mom for 30 minutes, and she would go into her room and either read a Star Trek novel, part of it, or watch a Star, you know, just to decompress. And then she would come out and and kind of wash off all of the horrors that she had seen. And so, Star Trek has always been a part of my, as therapy, really, in my family, and so to have this bridge, I'm very, very excited about that, and that brings me joy. So thank you, Tanya, for for being here. Tanya Searle is the stay, festival stage manager and the artistic associate. She is one of the full-time employees at the Shakespeare of 35, maybe about 30?
Tanya Searle
30, I think.
Ryan Paul
30
Tanya Searle
Is the number now.
Ryan Paul
and then the company at its biggest is?
Tanya Searle
300.
Ryan Paul
So 300, and so there are 30 people that keep the ship afloat all year round, and Tanya certainly is key to that. So if you're, if you want to find out more about the Shakespeare Festival, look at bard.org. They were doing three plays in the Randall, Something Rotten, She Loves Me, and See How They Run. Three in the Engelstad, which is Twelfth Night, Troilus and Cressida, and Hamlet, a play that not many people know. And then in the Anes Theater, which just opened this last week, we're doing two shows, The Book Club Play and Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. To get tickets for those, or to find out more information, look at bard.org. If you're interested in more of the Shakespeare Festival-themed podcast, as we get them edited and as move them up, they're on the festival website under the media page. If you want to know more about the APEX Hour at SUU, our podcast, which goes all year round, other than just Shakespeare, you can find that anywhere you get your podcasts. So we're going to go out with the song that that is makes me teary every time I hear it, called Till We Reach That Day, from one of my all-time favorite musicals, Ragtime. So, why did you choose this one?
Tanya Searle
It's such a powerful sentiment, you know, about community, that is going to take all of us, and you know, it's, it comes at the end of the first act of Ragtime after unspeakable tragedy has happened in the play, and it's just, it's incredibly moving. I desperately wished I could have seen this most recent Broadway revival. It was amazing, but alas, so that's why I chose this song. It was, it's just an incredibly powerful message that really speaks to me.
Ryan Paul
And you called that show here.
Tanya Searle
I did.
Ryan Paul
Okay, thank you all for listening. We're going to go out with from Ragtime. And in the words of the great American poet Bill Withers, "I wish you well."